Talk:Minuteman Bikeway

Better map needed
The image used here is pretty useless. I've ridden the bikeway before and could not actually find it. Flamesplash 04:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Would tracing an existing map (using, say Inkscape) and submitting it be allowable under the licensing terms of Wikipedia? Or would that be considered a derivative work and thus a copyright infringement? Is there any formal way to secure a license for an existing map that is compatible with the GFDL? audiodude 15:04, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It's OK to trace a map with "free" copyright status - e.g. public domain, GFDL, made before 1923 in the U.S., etc. The map currently shown is in the public domain because it was made by an agency of the U.S. federal government.  It would not be OK to trace a map with a non-free license, like a screen capture from Google Maps. If you find an existing map that you would need copyright permission for, you can use the procedure at: Requesting copyright permission. -- Beland (talk) 21:26, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The true distance
One of the most basic facts about the Bikeway--its length--is often stated erroneously. Published misinformation on the distance from the terminus at Alewife to the other terminus in Bedford, giving 11 miles as the distance, dates from the Bikeway's inception, and has been quoted ever since. Unfortunately, the false distance information persists, even appearing on the "Official Website", and has found its way into guidebooks and newspaper articles. It is also misleading that the granite mileposts along the path were misinscribed and remain so (instead of going from zero to ten miles, the markings on one side of the posts start at one and end at eleven). However, anyone with a reasonably accurate cycle odometer, or even a decent map and a map measurer, can verify that the distance is 10 miles. Indeed, there are ten one-mile stretches between mileposts. Ten miles is the true distance. Hertz1888 02:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I've never travelled the path myself, but I would say that your conclusion falls under the category of 'original research' which, as I understand, is not allowed on Wikipedia. It is unfortunate that the official site and newspaper articles quote 11 miles, but unless you can find a source that backs up your finding that it is actually 10, I think it is appropriate for the encyclopedia article to state the widely accepted value. But I am by no means an expert! audiodude 02:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Various reliable sources don't seem to agree with each other on this piece of information. For example, here and here they say that the length is 10.5 miles. Maybe the numbers 10 and 11 are just two acceptable options to round this number to an integer :). (But Hertz still seems to claim that it's 10 rather than 10.5, and I don't know why we shouldn't trust him.) Yevgeny Kats 03:40, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Physical facts that are readily verifiable are not a matter of majority vote or acceptance-except maybe on Wiki. There's nothing esoteric or opinion-based involved here. The facts "on the ground" are there for all to see.  Go see, or examine a map.  (Surely you don't believe everything you read in the newspapers).  I've given at least three methods whereby any observer can verify the distance.  A trip to the Bedford terminus will immediately show that the mile markers start from "1", adding a non-existent mile.  It's not just me saying this: see edit summary in page history for Nov. 2, 2005.  I will contact the path custodians and try to get the figure corrected on the official site.  In the meantime, I hope there is enough information given here for all readers to make a proper informed judgment, without our reverting the page to the false figure. There's been enough confusion already. Hertz1888 03:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

With the understanding that any "original research" of mine has no authoritative value on Wiki, perhaps I can at least provide some reassurance and background information. My measurements were made with good maps and a calibrated map measuring instrument, and with Google Earth, equivalent to both. They showed that the individual mileposts were set up with excellent accuracy, and the overall distance (from the Bedford terminus to the Arlington-Cambridge line) is 10 miles to within a few hundredths of a mile; that's the extent of the rounding. Not 10.5 and not 11. The markings on the mileposts, as I have said, are misleading and could have given rise to the confusion in the first place. I encourage anyone with the means to check the distance to go do so, though those results, unless published, won't bear any weight here either for citation purposes. Hertz1888 04:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Right, my measurement on Google Earth also gives 10 miles to within a few hundredths of a mile. Yevgeny Kats


 * I have found other sources that list the distance as 10 miles:
 * http://www.traillink.com/TL_Active_Pages/TrailSearch/default.asp?Action=DisplayDetails&ID=558 (10 miles)
 * http://www.bedforddepot.org/MinutemanBikeway.html (10.5 miles)
 * http://www.pps.org/great_public_spaces/one?public_place_id=18 (10 miles)
 * So even if Hertz1888's contribution is considered original research, there are independent sources that back it up.
 * Tim Pierce 15:46, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Mileposts on the Lexington and West Cambridge Railroad -- the right-of-way on which the Bikeway lies -- show Bedford's depot at rail milepost 14.81 and "Fens" station at 4.59, with "West Cambridge" at 4.16 ... so the route is at the very minimum 10.22 miles long and possibly as much as 10.65 miles, depending on where exactly those historic sites are in relation to the modern-day Cambridge bikeway terminus. Those mileposts are as listed in a Boston and Maine Railroad 1967 employee timetable. Wlindley (talk) 03:11, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * A reasonable conclusion—but incorrect, as it is based on a false assumption. The connection to the Fitchburg main line in West Cambridge could be described as "near" the present location of Alewife Station, as stated in the Lexington and West Cambridge Railroad article; few would argue with calling approximately a quarter mile distance "near".  However, measured the way the train went, inbound, the site of the former West Cambridge Station, at Sherman Street, is about 0.7 mile beyond the present-day terminus of the bikeway.  It is a stretch to call it, too, "near" Alewife Station (as the same article does - or used to).  Subtracting ca. 0.7 mi. from 10.65 gives us ca. 9.95.  You have therefore succeeded in providing additional confirmation of the 10 mile distance!  Hertz1888 (talk) 07:41, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

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