Talk:Minutemen (band)

Project: Mersh article help!
I just started work on the Project Mersh article today. It looks good so far; I have the infobox, track listing, personnel and links. However, I am just not that good at writing the body. I tried to write the introduction, but I just couldn't do it. I wasn't even sure how explain the order of its release. Is Project: Mersh the final EP? (It depends on whether you include Minuteflag which recorded a month after P:M but released posthumously.) Was it the next to last recorded? (including or excluding Minuteflag) I would appreciate any help that you can offer. --Adamv88 19:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

FTA: "Project:Mersh ...Though the album sounded more mainstream, it sold poorly compared to "Double Nickels," due largely to the negative reaction to such a commercial album from within the underground community." I don't think that any perceived "commercialness" was necessarily a - or at least the - cause of any relative sales deficiency; can we get a cite?- It doesn&#39;t stick. (talk) 14:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Band Name
Here's the specifics of the band's name, more approporiate for the Talk page: (from Azerrad's book) "'[The '60s Minutemen would] send these notes to Angela Davis like they were going to bomb her but they never did,' Watt says. 'Mao has this quote which said all reactionaries are paper tigers--they're phonies.  And he thought the [Sixties] Minutemen were big phonies.'  Contrary to legend, the band was not named for the brevity of their songs." (Azerrad, 67).

"The" Minutemen, the punk band, were actually called "Minutemen", so this probably isn't the best place to move them. You see a "the" stuck in front of the name quite a lot, but that's a mistake (allmusic.com solves the grammatical clunkiness of leaving it out by studiously using a lower-case "the" to imply that it's not part of the name).

And they were pretty important in the history of punk so, if you ask me, dissing them in favour of the American militias is being provincial too! :) --Paul Drye

What he said. (I started it under "Minutemen" for the reasons above.) I'm not opposed to things that make it easier for people to find the article they want, of course. -- RjLesch - I shall not comment on the respective importance of the Minutemen militia vs. Minutemen punk band. :-)

But, I was clearly in the wrong for moving it to this page. I thought it was "The Minutemen" (since that's what the article said) so I thought it was a clever, although imperfect, solution to the ambiguity problem to move the band article to this page.

I can't say that Minuteman/Band is a much better solution, but it'll have to do for a few more weeks...we should be switching to Magnus's software soon, which will make it possible to put parentheses in article titles. --LMS

Page move
As you can see from previous discussion, it seems "the" is omitted from the band's name. Looking at the cover of albums further supports this. &mdash;jiy (talk) 04:34, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Given that I'm the one Wikipedian that's been maintaining and trying to expand all Minutemen-related entries on Wikipedia, I am torn on the subject here as to whether or not The Minutemen entry should be rerouted without the article "The". However, that is not my call, as I am not one of the Minutemen. However, the Minutemen's bassist, Mike Watt himself, has been keeping up with the entries related to his work on Wikipedia and is aware that I have been working on them, and has offered corrections to same to me via e-mail correspondence. If the article "The" did not belong in the band I am sure he would have mentioned it himself by now. Cjmarsicano 06:23, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Would you mind asking Watt whether The is officially a part of the band's name? Keep in mind that The Minutemen (band) will still redirect to Minutemen (band) when the page is moved. &mdash;jiy (talk) 07:44, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * If you could, that would be ideal. Also, tell him I enjoyed We Jam Econo, the documentary. I'll probably be making a stub for that soon enough. &middot; Katefan0(scribble) 16:16, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Asking him will have to wait until he gets back to the States, as he's playing with The Stooges in Europe right now, but ask him I will. Cjmarsicano 20:04, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I should have thought that asking Watt directly is in contravention of WP:Original Research. The convention on the band's album covers is to say 'Minutemen', not 'The Minutemen', although as I found out when proposing a standard spelling for Booker T. & the M.G.'s, album covers themselves are not regarded by Wikipedia as authoritative sources.  (Booker T. & the M.G.'s spelled their own name several different ways on their album covers.)  I have no problem with the title of the article being 'Minutemen' and referring to the band within the article as 'the Minutemen'.  They are one of my favourite bands, btw. Lexo (talk) 16:10, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Wondering about geographic influence
Should this article touch on the relative isolation of bands like the Minutemen and Black Flag from the Hollywood/Chinatown punk scene (regardless of the lyrical contents of "History Lesson, Vol. 2"), and how this might have influenced their sound? Certainly either band was considerably more eclectic in nature than most of the acts at Madame Wong's. --Slightlyslack 10:28, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't disagree there. I'll have to work on that part of the article when I have more free time, as I'm really foamin' to expand this article to Beatles/Zep/Pink Floyd levels ;) Cjmarsicano 15:00, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Madam Wong’s was more a new wave venue. Hong Kong Cafe briefly had more Hollywood bands, Catholic Discipline segment of Decline was filmed there.  I have avoided using definite articles, tho I can’t remember ever hearing of this band being referred to as “Minutemen” when they were actually playing.  Band names without articles (eg “styx”) weren’t very cool in 1978-80.  Always kind of jarring to me to see. SternoJimbo (talk) 00:03, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Move?
There hasn't been any discussion on this for months... perhaps wait to refile when the band is contacted? Ryan Norton T 00:22, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

OK, its been months, so I'm delisting this :). I apologize for the inconvenience - please refile when the band is contacted or a decision is reached - thanks! Ryan Norton T 22:26, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I've known Mike for about 9 years. The band name is Minutemen.  We could change the page now, or I can make a point of asking him next time I see him (probably in the next few weeks), and re-confirm it if anyone wants me to.
 * Mike was just in my office, he confirmed that the band's name is simply Minutemen, as it appears on their album covers. Although sometimes The Minutemen was used to describe the band, or less commonly Minute Men, Minutemen is the official name of the band.  Unless there is objection, I'm going to move the page to Minutemen (band) and change this to a redirect page. Glowimperial 22:33, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok then- I stand corrected! SternoJimbo (talk) 00:04, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Incomplete edit
I noticed that there seems to be an incomplete edit on the Minutemen page -- there is an incomplete phrase in the "Covers and Tributes" section, third paragraph -- "specifically the". I'm assuming that the person editing will finish, but if I don't notice a change by the end of the day, I'll probably go ahead and delete the phrase.--Larrybob 21:13, 29 March 2006 (UTC) -- looks like it's fixed now...--Larrybob 02:06, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

no logo?
I noticed the logo has been removed in favor of regular text, which says "The Minutemen"; the logo said only "Minutemen." Is this because the article "the" is being reinstated?

Vida link in History section
Hurley has produced work with Vida, Mayo Thompson Vida is a disambiguation article, I was unable to determine the context of the article and what the proper link would be. It would be good if this was fixed. --Midnightcomm 04:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think any of these articles [are] correct -- it looks like this Vida is a music project of Dez Cadena -- --Larrybob 16:19, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Logo + Pic
I uploaded a new logo and pic of the band... looks pretty shaweet ;) Dman92 16:02, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Boon's girlfriend death?
The current article reads "On December 22, 1985, Boon and his girlfriend were killed in a van accident, putting an end to the Minutemen."

While this may be true, in no other media that I can remember (e.g. Our Band Could Be Your Life and We Jam Econo) was it mentioned that Boon's girlfriend also died in the crash. Does someone have a definitive source one way or another? Painaxl 11:58, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Well spotted. CloudNine 12:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Good research, style not so good
This article is a labour of love and has some good research, but the style leaves a lot to be desired. There are many clunky constructions and some weird phrasing; some of it almost reads as though written by someone who didn't have English as a first language. I take this to be the result of numerous rewrites by different hands, rather than just one person who couldn't write very well. If nobody objects, I will go through it and fix what I believe to be the most glaring faults of style. Lexo (talk) 16:13, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Genre
Considering their relation to the nationwide American underground rock scene in the eighties and the fact that most of their music isn't hardcore punk at all, shouldn't we consider giving them a better label than just post-punk (partly true) and hardcore punk? What Makes a Man Start Fires? is closer to No Wave like James Chance and the Contortions than it is to the generic east coast DC Hardcore stuff. Historical context would place them under alternative rock/indie rock. I know, Watt hates that label, I'm not big on them either, but that is what is used.Jonas.E.B. 06:48, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I've seen similar discussions on other punk articles so I wanted to add my two cents. I don't like the practice of categorizing a band with names that didn't exist at the time the band was active. The Minutemen were never called "no wave" or "alternative". I was in LA when they were active, and they were just "punk", or "hardcore", or occasionally "jazz-inluenced punk". Another example would be classifying an early-eighties rockabilly group as "roots rock". The term just didn't exist then. Gaohoyt (talk) 17:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

But we do reclassify things after the fact though. The Stooges were christened proto-punk, as were T.Rex, New York Dolls, and David Bowie, as was the Velvet Underground (who are now often referred to in rock lit as the first alternative rock band.) Michael Azerrad's Our Band Could Be Your Life in my opinion properly contextualizes the band. FYI, Allmusic lists the Minutemen's genre as "rock" and styles as (in order): American underground, alternative pop/rock, hardcore punk, punk, post punk, and college rock and relates them to similar artists Sonic Youth, Pere Ubu, Mission of Burma, and REM. I'm pretty much against labeling other than the most basic descriptors i.e. pop, rock, rap, electronic, etc. that actually form a framework to classify artists effectively; most modern labels since the punk era just don't do this well. My point is that the band is considered part of something wider than hardcore punk or punk and are usually mentioned communing with those aforementioned bands and the other SST radicals rather than every flag waving punker band of the day. If "punk" alone was used in its original sense, which would logically include all of the post-punk bands and the later alternative/indie stock, I might not have such a problem with all of this but when I see the wikiproject Punk logo with the mohawks and the actual punk/hardcore punk articles endorsing these cliches in context for a group like the Minutemen, it makes me gag honestly.

Also, I just find it ironic that the modern punks are trying to reclaim Black Flag as their own when they rejected them for not following the party line, and at that, one which they never really claimed to be or want a part of. The Minutemen, Black Flag, Husker Du, Meat Puppets...they all voiced displeasure with the punk status quo. D. Boon may have said "Punk rock changed our lives" but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't condone the creative brick wall blandness that passes for punk today.

Hardcore punk should be listed among their genres, no question, but it really does need to be expanded. Jonas.E.B. 05:55, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

These labels are so fleeting. Who knows whether in 20 years we will remember what "emo" or "screamo" meant? A word like "proto-punk" obviously does nothing to describe a band's self-perception, or how it was experienced by its original fans. It's OK to say that in retrospect the Stooges were one of the groups the prefigured the punk sound, but I wouldn't classify them on that basis. Gaohoyt (talk) 16:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Interesting discussion here folks (no sarcasm), but try to remember to keep the original research out of Wikipedia. I agree that labels are mostly bunk, but as editors we can't insert personal views into articles. Strong opinions such as these only belong when they're cited from reputable, reliable sources/journalists. Cheers, dfg (talk) 19:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm reminded of an old interview with Watt wherein he describes touring and, after a gig (in Boston, iirc), a kid (in standard "Punk Rock Uniform" of the day) comes up to him and says, in effect, "Man, you guys are the weirdest 'Hahdcowah' band I evah sawr." Now, "Hardcore", "Punk" and "Post-Punk" don't begin to really describe the band accurately, but those are the terms that were applied at the time both by fans and critics. In hindsight, we can attach many labels to them, so the question is which? - It doesn&#39;t stick. (talk) 17:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

D. Boon
I understand that Mike Wyatt's and George Hurley's articles are up for mention to be merged. While I admittingly don't care whether they are merged one way or another, one thing I would kindly suggest is that D. Boon still continue to have his own article. Boon was one of the most influential and talented guitarists in hardcore punk, and the information about him is more than enough for the article about him to stand on its' own. Mr. Brain (talk) 01:33, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

After the demise of Minutemen with D. Boon's death both Mike Watt and George Hurley played together in a new band called fireHose. And Mike Watt continues to make music as a solo artist. As a consquence, I don't think the Watt and Hurley articles should be merged into the Minutemen article. To the contrary, I think that Boon, Watt, and Hurley each should retain his own biographical article. Eric Alan Isaacson (talk) 00:02, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Article is long enough, and Watt (and Hurley?) has a notable solo career. Suggest removing the tag. Gaohoyt (talk) 05:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

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Covering Minutemen songs and Missingmen
From the article: "They refuse to have a substitute guitarist play late Minutemen guitarist D. Boon's parts; instead the songs are arranged for bass and drums." It might be worth putting in the article that more recently, Watt and the Missingmen have done many shows where they do faithful covers of Minutemen songs with a trio of guitar, bass, and drums (though not Hurley). See for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrO3UnYK7h8 -- there are a lot of Minutemen songs in that video.JohnMason (talk) 23:24, 14 December 2021 (UTC)