Talk:Miran Pastourma

Competition on the pastirma and sujuk market
The same user opened two articles Miran Pastourma (this one) and Apikoğlu Brothers on two pastirma and sujuk artisans (later businessmen) from Kayseri, Turkey, lately. (Thanks.) Both people were ethnic Armenians from Ottoman Turkey. Both first came from Kayseri to Istanbul and moved their pastirma-sujuk business. One (the latter) stayed in Istanbul and continues business since 1920 there. The other, for some reason moved to Athens in 1922. According to the article, Miran came (escaped) to Athens allegedly (I added) due to something horrible which I will not write down here because I do not agree with the term used in the article; so let me write it in Turkish: 1915 "Ermeni tehciri". Now I am very confused: Two families of Ottoman Armenians move from the Turkish city of Kayseri to the Turkish city of Istanbul in the same years. One family sets up their pastirma-sujuk business there and achieves a great commercial success. The other, for some reason, "escapes" to Athens only two years after the first family sets up its business in Istanbul. Could the reason of the escape be "competition"? If there was such a great risk for pastirma and sujuk producers in Istanbul in the 1920s why did not the Apikoğlu brothers escape out of Turkey together with the Miran family and open a "charcuterie" say in Salonica or Marseilles, where there is a large Armenian community, who, like all other Ottoman people would make a good client market for the pastirma and sujuk, Kayseri style? I removed the so-called reason of Miran's "escape" from Istanbul from the article because it did not seem convincing to me for the above explanation. My edit was reverted and nobody made an effort to "seriously" source that "story". Could it be possible that Miran invented an escape story so that the people of Athens would have more sympathy to his "charcuterie" and buy more pastirma and sujuk from Miran's place? Please add reliable sources that Miran really "escaped" from Turkey for the reasons claimed in this article. --E4024 (talk) 17:51, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * First, we are not here to analyse reliable sources by using original research. Second, I don't think you are reading the paragraph carefully. The reliable sources such as the newspaper To Vima verify the flight from Kayseri to Constantinople and then "settlement in" Athens: . So the "escape" was to Constantinople from Kayseri, not to Athens, where the paragraph explicitly states that "he settled", not "escaped". "To settle" is obviously not the same as "to escape". I hope you realise that. So your statement: The other, for some reason, "escapes" to Athens... is flat-out wrong and so is your conclusion: Could it be possible that Miran invented an escape story so that the people of Athens would have more sympathy to his "charcuterie" and buy more pastirma and sujuk from Miran's place? which is also pure speculation and original research. I suggest you re-read the paragraph because they are is no claim for an "escape to Athens" as you wrongly suggest. As far as your statement: ...due to something horrible which I will not write down here because I do not agree with the term, I suggest that while you may not agree with the term Armenian Genocide, you should also not try to make it disappear by using Turkish terms like 1915 "Ermeni tehciri" because this is the English Wikipedia. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  18:20, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * And having checked Google translate your term 1915 "Ermeni tehciri" actually means the "1915 Armenian deportation". Given that even the Turkish wikipedia calls this "Ermeni Kırımı" which translates to "The Armenian massacre", it just serves to show the size of your POV. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  18:54, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * @E4024: Please keep your conspiracy theories about Miran Kourounlian's motivations to yourself, unless of course you can find sources to back them up (which I somehow doubt you will...). Athenean (talk) 22:24, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Miran may have started as a poor guy but he needed no sympathy. His pastourma was easy-come, easy-go. Wait, this has a familiar ring. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  02:45, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * But can he do the fandango? Proudbolsahye (talk) 02:50, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * LOL. Even worse: ROFL. :) Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  02:52, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Clients from the 1940s
The source is in a language I cannot understand. Therefore I do not know when Mr Miran was interviewed; however clients from the 40s must not be too many today. Let's take 1943 as a 40s year. It has been 70 years since then. As it were "war years" maybe people sent their children who were not in military service, say 15 years, to make the market shopping for the family. They should be 85 by now. I believe we should add to the concerned sentence when Mr Miran was interviewed. If it was 10 years ago, that could make more sense; the clients would be 75 years old and still able to come to buy pastirma and sujuk although with walking aids. However, due to high-cholesterol of these products this time they would be buying maybe for their grandchildren rather than for themselves and even for their own children. There is a need to clarify that part in the article. --E4024 (talk) 20:15, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Perhaps home delivery? For all I know they may be phoning in their order. And being such longterm customers they must be getting the royal treatment. No need for personal shopping for them, I'm sure. Actually somewhere in the citations it is mentioned that Miran is sending pastourma and soutzouki all over Greece through free mail orders. As far as cholesterol etc. perhaps it's the pastourma/soutzouki-enhanced Mediterranean diet and that red Greek wine, not to mention the climate of Attica which counteracts the effects of cholesterol, including their relaxed way of living. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  20:47, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Our old friend walked every day from Makrigianni to Omonia and back to pick up his newspaper, and on the way, he shopped at Miran at least once a week. He died last year, 92 years old, but I am sure there are still more of his kind. Tough guys, these old Athenians. --79.160.40.10 (talk) 23:31, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * PS: Without a walking aid. --79.160.40.10 (talk) 23:32, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Excellent points. In any case, add to the healthy ones you just mentioned, those on ambulatory care and those confined at home or in the hospital but who still subscribe to Miran's mail-order business or home-delivery service for their pastourma/soutzouki delivery and the numbers quickly increase. The funny thing is all this talk about pastourma and soutzouki makes me seriously consider becoming a subscriber. But before I graduate to full-blown pastourma I'll try the pie first. I heard it had fewer calories. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  02:39, 4 February 2013 (UTC)