Talk:Miroslava Duma

Semi-protected edit request on 14 September 2018
Please add the following information into the introduction: Miroslava is The World Economic Forum Young Global Leader (YGL), Class of 2018, recognized for professional accomplishments, commitment to society, and potential to contribute to shaping the future of the world through leadership. (source: https://www.weforum.org/communities/young-global-leaders) Miroslava has been cited as the ‘force of the fashion industry’ by the Financial Times and ‘the most connected digital entrepreneur’ by Vogue.

Future Tech Lab In 2017, Duma founded Future Tech Lab. FTL specializes in cutting edge technology across the fields of materials science, bio and nanotechnology, wearable electronics, high–performance fibers and fabrics, and other related innovations. FTL combines an investment company, multinational accelerator, experimental laboratory and philanthropic organisation, aimed at helping new technologies and sustainable innovations connect, collaborate, and create products and brands that evolve the fashion and apparel industry. (Source: https://www.vogue.com/article/diane-von-furstenberg-miroslava-duma-google-arts-culture-lab-paris-fashion-week-party)

FTL’s flagship portfolio companies include Diamond Foundry, Dropel, Mycoworks, Worn Again, Evrnu, Bolt Threads, VitroLabs, Reformation, among others.

The FTL advisory board consists of a group of innovators with diverse backgrounds in fashion, technology, sustainability and academia, including Carmen Busquets, fashion-tech entrepreneur and investor (Net-a-Porter, Moda Operandi, Farfetch, Lyst, Maiyet); Diane Von Furstenberg, iconic designer and Chairwoman of the Council of Fashion Designers of America; fashion designer Stella McCartney; Diego Della Valle, Chairman and CEO of Tod’s Group; Alexandre Arnault, Co-CEO of Rimowa; entrepreneur, philanthropist and NYT bestselling author Laura Arrillaga-Andreessen; media executive and investor Austin Hearst; philanthropist and fashion designer Gabriela Hearst.

FTL officially launched at the Google Arts & Culture Lab in Paris on 2nd of October 2017, where 7 truly revolutionary technologies were showcased. More than 400 guests attended from the worlds of fashion, finance, technology, and sustainability, including François Henri Pinault, Delphine Arnault, Diane Von Furstenberg, Carla Sozzani, Azzedine Alaia and Salma Hayek, amongst many others. The video of the event is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQMyflZhdx4

Philanthropy Duma is an avid philanthropist, having founded her charity Peace Planet, helping vulnerable children, the elderly and those in need of urgent medical assistance in 2007.

In 2017 Duma joined Stanford Philanthropy Innovation Summit (https://pacscenter.stanford.edu/philanthropy-innovation-summit/) as a member of the Host Committee. The Summit brings together influential philanthropists in order to share their experiences and knowledge to inspire and guide their peers and other philanthropists around the world.

Miroslava is a member of the advisory board for The Naked Heart Foundation (https://www.nakedheart.org/en/), a charity founded by Natalia Vodianova with the aim to construct modern play parks in urban areas of Russia; and Elbi Digital, a project that brings innovation to charity and philanthropy. Sandra.tawk (talk) 16:25, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Fetchie Mankala (talk) 18:22, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

WP:BOLD on Controversy
Exercising WP:BOLD to remove what is in my strong belief that the mentions on derogatory comments as they currently are in terms of reliable multiple third-party sources are not sufficient to warrant a display on the article. I am going here in Presumption in favor of privacy from Biographies of living persons which states that "If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article—even if it is negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it. If you cannot find multiple reliable third-party sources documenting the allegation or incident, leave it out.", as well as "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced and not related to making content choices should be removed, deleted, or oversighted, as appropriate.".

There has been no original coverage of said allegations from generally reliable news sources as per Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources. The two sources provided are not exactly news sites or trustworthy and highly consistent, and are sources that deal with entertainment, not factual reporting or news. The original source is Harper's Bazaar, which is a fashion trade journal. This should not substitute the requirement for multiple reliable third-party sources to demonstrate that the contentious material was, as per WP:BLP, noteworthy, relevant and well documented. Removing in favor of caution. Runforlimit505 (talk) 06:01, 13 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, the last sentence in the removed section read the following: "The controversy led to Duma being dropped from child's fashion company she founded, The Tot, and the website Buro 24/7". The sources provided was an article from a fashion journal, that reads the following: "Duma apologised, and was dropped from the child's fashion company she founded, The Tot, and from the website she co-founded in the early 2010s, Buro 24/7". This wording does not suggest she was dropped specifically for her comments, nor are there any legitimate sources to back the statement (such as a statement from the company or other articles) that she was removed for her comments. The formulation was thus pure conjecture.

Removing Controversy section - Requires consensus
This section is negative and derogatory. It is Capable of tarnishing the subject's image. WP:BLP policy forbids such negative content. WP:BLP states Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion. Also, that controversy section seems also like a case of WP:ATTACK. It's meant to primarily to disparage the subject.Estarosmārṭ (talk) 14:40, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Also WP:BLP states:

'' Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment''.

Let's get a consensus on this since it is controversial. Until then, I am removing it. I have also raised the issue on BLP noticeboard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Miroslava_Duma — Preceding unsigned comment added by Estarosmārṭ (talk • contribs) 19:06, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The consensus at Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard appears to be that the material is well-covered in reliable sources and due. I am re-adding it, as User:Morbidthoughts did previously once. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 16:20, 15 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Note - Further investigations reveals that a Blocked user by name User:Motivatedjack added that "Controversy Section" on   29 June 2018 at 06:22. Here's the revision link https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miroslava_Duma&oldid=848007440


 * Same user was banned shortly after for abusing multiple accounts in this sock archive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/BrookeCook/Archive
 * Several attempt to clear the section or at least toned it down has always been reverted by several editors. For now, there's no consensus per the thread at BLP.Estarosmārṭ (talk) 20:16, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The material about her unfortunate comments was initially added by a now-blocked user; it was significantly reworked by Yunshui, and has now been reworked by myself (following the suggestion of Curdle). So WP:DENY doesn't apply.  I will also remark that a persistent stream of IPs, SPAs, and socks have since attempted to remove any reference to said unfortunate comments.  As several users have noted at BLPN, the incident had a significant effect on her career. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 23:59, 15 November 2020 (UTC)


 * For convenience of future editors, the BLPN discussion is archived here. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 22:08, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Discrepancy over her actual nationality by birth
There's a palpable discrepancies over Duma's original nationality. She was quoted as being born in Ukraine here

https://thesaxon.org/miroslava-duma-i-pray-that-peace-will-come-soon/

''My whole family was born in Ukraine. My brothers and sisters are now in Ukraine.''

Also on this link https://www.vogue.com/article/little-russia-miroslava-duma-is-larger-than-life, it states:

her own parents, who migrated from modest beginnings in Ukraine and ended up in Siberia

Other sources say she was born in Surgut, Russian SFSR https://web.archive.org/web/20141013155315/http://themoscownews.com/business/20121112/190849520.html

In line with the above, I believe is necessary to set aside the "Russian" nationality on the lead section until a consensus is reached on this. Either we say she's a Ukrainian-born digital entrepreneur or Russian as the case may be. For now, let's set it aside until we have a consensus.Ilsecondoordine (talk) 21:13, 20 March 2022 (UTC)


 * The source in The Saxon clearly says that she was born in Russia. This source is an interview, and has the usual problems with interviews -- see WP:Interviews for more on this.  As her father was also a member of the Russian senate, this looks like strong connections with Russia.  The reliable sources in the article all refer to her as Russian, although the Telegraph article notes that her family came in from Ukraine.  The Vogue article that you link is similar.  Both the Vogue and Telegraph articles make it clear the extent to which her professional and personal life has been based in Russia.  I do understand that it is not fashionable at the moment to be closely identified with Russia, but I don't think this is negative information.  It probably would be WP:DUE to include in the personal life section that her family had immigrated from Ukraine.  Since this is a BLP, I will ping for a second opinion  who is familiar with this article from the last time it went to WP:BLPN, and well familiar with BLP policy. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 21:56, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

Thankyou for the ping, Russ Woodroofe. I agree; pretty much all of the sources acknowledge her family comes from the Ukraine, but emigrated to Russia/Siberia. One source states she was born in Surgut.(which seems to be in the Siberia region?) In the Saxon piece she herself states "I was born in Siberia, where my grandfather and his family were exiled. I grew up in Russia." She was educated and seems to have worked in Russia as well. So yes, you could put in a Ukrainian family background, but deleting naitionality of the lead seems a bit of overkill. One other thing I noticed though..the article confirming her place and year of birth doesnt give the exact date (10 March), and none of the other articles I flipped through did either, so that should probably go, unless I missed something? Curdle (talk) 10:50, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * , good catch on the birthday. I found a source for it in a Business of Fashion profile page -- that page looks to be updated by the subject, possibly with some amount of editorial oversight, but should anyway suffice for a routine detail like this.  If you're still concerned, then I don't suppose the day matters much, and we could take it out (the sourcing for the year is reasonably solid).  Also re-added nationality to the lede, with the note at the top of the body that her family had come from Ukraine. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 23:02, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with both Russ Woodroofe and Curdle. I looked into this because it came up on BLPN and while some sources do mention her Ukrainian family background etc so it's probably find to mention this somewhere, I was unable to find a single source from a quick search which called her Ukrainian or otherwise said it was her personal nationality. On the flip side, I found a few RS which did call her Russian [//www.ft.com/content/cd106c6c-495b-11e4-8d68-00144feab7de], [//www.independent.co.uk/life-style/miroslava-duma-lung-disease-instagram-diagnosis-health-illness-recovery-a9230501.html], [//www.harpersbazaar.com/celebrity/latest/a27198753/mueller-report-miroslava-duma-ivanka-trump/]/[//news.artnet.com/art-world/mueller-report-miroslava-duma-1522174]/[//www.thecut.com/2019/04/russian-influencer-miroslava-duma-named-in-mueller-report.html] (however those 3 relate to the Mueller report which may have influenced descriptions of her). I also found one possible RS which do likewise [//www.refinery29.com/en-us/2018/05/198267/fake-news-russian-it-girls-miroslava-duma] (although the smear campaign described there called her Russian so it's possible that could have influenced the descriptions of her in the story). There are a whole bunch of non reliable or likely non reliable sources that do likewise e.g. [//www.thecut.com/2018/01/miroslava-duma-transphobic-homophobic-video.html] (The Cut itself is potentially reliable but the description is only in the headline), [//metro.co.uk/2014/04/22/how-miroslava-duma-is-leading-a-new-russian-revolution-in-style-4702419/] (assuming saying she's been affectionally dubbed "the Russian mafia" is calling her Russian), [//www.mother.ly/life/traveling-with-kids/], [//www.hourdetroit.com/fashion-topics/the-2021-best-dressed-metro-detroiters-list/], [//www.businessoffashion.com/articles/media/dont-call-her-a-czarina-miroslava-duma-on-growing-a-digital-empire/] (I think, it's behind a paywall), [//tvovermind.com/miroslava-duma/], [//www.highsnobiety.com/p/miroslava-duma-sergeenko-racism-scandal/]. While the non RS are mostly useless when it comes to deciding what we call her, the fact that there are all of those yet I didn't find one calling her Ukrainian makes me strongly doubt the claim she's generally been recognised as having Ukrainian nationality, instead calling her Russian seems to have been fairly uncontentious until recently. Whatever she's said in interviews, for some reason no one has seem to have taken it to mean she's Ukrainian at least until now. Nil Einne (talk) 07:52, 26 March 2022 (UTC)