Talk:Missing white woman syndrome/Archive 1

Amber Alert
I removed the "Amber Alert" reference, since Amber Alerts only apply to missing children, not adults (as the term "woman" implies). --149.159.1.177 13:33, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * "Missing white woman" and "Missing white girl" reflect the same biases of the 24/7 news channels. Maybe "Missing white female" could cover the topic better, although commentators use "woman" or "Girl" in criticizing this coverage bias. Edison 16:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Anti-White Racism
Exemplying the arrogance and strident Anti-White Racism that occurs in the Western world and also on Wikipedia; this article is not only disgusting but also disingenous. The hatred that self loathing whites and their racist counterparts feel towards those of European background in the western world will hopefully become dissipated before a genocide occurs. This article, as well as the thoughts articulated herein, fan the flames of racism and has no place in the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.122.187.170 (talk • contribs) April 23, 2006
 * Pfff. --Jerome Potts 08:43, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Wow. Big surprise that this type of comment comes from an anonymous user.  Racism is what fuels Missing white woman syndrome and to suggest that anyone who believes that Missing white woman syndrome is detrimental to society is a racist is the most ass-backward logic I've ever heard.  Also, why couch your argument in logic at all?  We all know this feeling starts in your heart and you only put it into words for some semblance of actual thought and rationale.  --Hraefen 19:41, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia does not make moral judgements or give personal opinions. I think I've learned to spot possible trolling on talk pages, and this could well be an example of it.-h i s  s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 10:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Counter example of horrific murder of White people by Blacks ignored by national media
Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom murder prolonged torture and gang rape by a gang of blacks of Christopher Newsom and Channon Christian ignored by national media. See link

Was deleted as massivley POV... 62.25.109.195 10:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Hate crimes are bad but what the hell does this have to do with this?


 * None of these missing White women cases has anything to do with the brutal murder of a young couple.


 * You are saying that coverage of missing white women 24/7 is justified because four Black people murdered a White couple. --69.87.176.180 15:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Horrific murder...of whites...by blacks...? Sounds like O.J. Hey! Didn't that get national media attention? (:-O 64.241.230.3 13:20, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It does underscore the one of the problems faced by this article -- there are absolutely no criteria being used to include/exclude examples. According to our definition of MWWS, this crime *should* have been given disproportionate media coverage because a young white attractive female went missing (if only briefly) and then was found murdered. And yet... it didn't. Why don't you see that as a counterexample? What WOULD be a counterexample to you? I'm sure there are hundreds or thousands of cases of missing white women who are not given widespread attention in the media. This article should be discussing why that is, perhaps as a counterargument against MWWS, or perhaps to further refine the definition to more specific attributes. Even more importantly, the examples that *are* given need to be justified. Why is Chandra Levy an example of MWWS while Channon Christian isn't? Why is Tamika Huston an example of negative bias when her case was no more interesting or gory than Channon Christian's? Stdarg (talk) 17:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Holloway
They've come to the conclusion on the Holloway article that she should not be listed as presumed dead until an official government announcement...I'll change it if no one has any objections. Jarwulf 18:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * "Presumed dead" means she's thought of as dead. Plus, investigators treated this case as a potential murder case. KyuuA4 16:21, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, "presumed dead" has a legal meaning - it doesn't mean that "somebody thinks she's dead". It means specifically that a death certificate has been issued. Has one? Charlene.fic 18:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Hot Button Topic
LILVOKA Let's hope Nioqui McCowen and Tamika Huston join the list of missing people who finally get cover "not because" of race...... Thanks to everyone who took part in making Missing Pretty Girl (White Women) Syndrome a hot button topic. Keep up the good work Wiki-editors. LILVOKA 2005 August 27 9:00 (UTC)


 * Is this a political action website or an encyclopedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.190.201 (talk • contribs) June 9, 2006


 * Who knows, maybe someday in the year 2525 someone will care when it's a man who disappears. =P  -- Antaeus Feldspar 16:43, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Go to the Doe Network: you'll find people who care right now about all 100,000 Americans who are missing. Yes, 100,000. I wonder if anybody cares about the non-Americans, or those who aren't young or pretty or thin or middle-class or from good families. Charlene.fic 18:28, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

NPOV
I see that an NPOV tag has been added and removed without discussion here. I think whoever added the NPOV tag is confusing the point of view of those who have identified and described the phenomenon (as found in the external link refences) with bias in the article. The "Stages..." section is basically a summary of the articles referenced. However, I like the addition of "...coined by some media critics..." and "According to those who advocate the theory...." I'm not sure it tempers the description sufficiently to placate anyone who thinks that highly-selective supercoverage of a news story is responsible journalism, but I think it's accurate. --Tysto 17:01, 2005 July 28 (UTC)

Legacy
Should a section be included on the "legacy" of such cases? In some cases (Amber Hagerman, Jessica Lunsford, Laci Peterson, Megan Nicole Kanka) actual legislation is enacted to ensure that "nothing like this ever happens again." Altho I don't doubt that there is well-intentioned civic-mindedness in most cases, there is also a certain crass opportunism in enacting such legislation that seems to be a part of the hype. --Tysto 03:57, 2005 July 26 (UTC)


 * I just want to say that the list that's out there right now, of missing white women, and the laws they inspired, is fabulous. Kudos to parent for the idea and whoever put it together. 207.67.116.10 12:46, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Membership in the club
Deletion or not, how the hell is Terri Shaivo missing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.10.235 (talk • contribs) July 19, 2005

I also deleted Jessica Lynch, she doesn't seem to be appropriate for this article. John Barleycorn 06:45, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

While Jessica Lynch might not be missing either, she very closely follows the profile nonetheless. I suppose you can argue hers was a case of a "missing" woman as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.10.235 (talk • contribs) July 22, 2005


 * I agree that Jessica Lynch fits the model; her case differs from the others mainly in that the general outcome was known early on. But the endless coverage and rampant speculation over what exactly happened, how it happened, who was involved, etc. were the same. --Tysto 14:16, 2005 July 26 (UTC)


 * Schaivo is was media hype but not MWWS. Maybe she was missing consciousness but that's a stretch of logic.MPS 16:06, 28 July 2005 (UTC)


 * At one point, Lynch was missing. She's white and was captured/kidnapped in Iraq.  After being found, she received the media hype.  Plus, in comparision, a black woman (whose name I cannot remember without looking at the article) was in the same situation as Lynch.  Thus, Lynch is a prime example of this phenomenon. KyuuA4 16:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well if she got the coverage after being found and rescued, then the hype is somewhat justified. Was the other woman, Shoshana Johnson, found too? (I dunno, i hardly watch the news, precisely because of the topic at hand, plus others...) --Jerome Potts 08:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I would not think Jill Carroll belongs on this list, either. I think her situation was driven by her occupation and her capture as a journalist. NickBurns 02:45, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Furthermore there has been plenty of coverage of hostages of all sexes, races, and professions in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as in earlier contexts. Coverage of a "missing cute white girl" is not the same. Joseph N Hall 09:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I just deleted two more who were murdered and never missing and Jessica McClure, the baby-in-a-well story, which is completely different from MWWS. --Tysto 19:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I would also suggest deleting Patty Hearst and Polly Klass. Hearst primarily received attention because of her parentage (and the bizarre circumstances of her apparent brainwashing). Klass was taken in a particularly blatant and heinous crime that would no doubt have brought attention regardless of gender or race.Jcb10

VfD
This article was listed for deletion; the result was to keep. See Votes for deletion/Missing White Women Syndrome for a record of the votes and discussion. Postdlf 05:13, 23 July 2005 (UTC)


 * cool. I am grateful to those who bothered writing it, it articulates what i've been annoyed with for soooooooo long. --Jerome Potts 08:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Paraphilia
I removed the line about this being a paraphilia. With no citation, it sounds like speculation. Joyous (talk) 03:19, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

Missing children
How did the Missing white Woman list forget to list CARLIE BRUCIA? Of all the white girl's kidnapped, she is freshest in my mind. The media didn't even have the balls to tell the public she was presumed raped - then strangled. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.83.228.63 (talk • contribs) July 24, 2005
 * I've added her to the list. A main article on her already exists of course. --Tysto 14:16, 2005 July 26 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a soapbox
I'd just like to point out to those people linking to Wikipedia is not a soapbox that it was meant to apply to the articles themselves, not their talk pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.95.128.51 (talk • contribs) July 28, 2005
 * Nope. Discussion about what should be in the article, including debates about facts are what belongs on the article talk pages.  But, article talk pages are not a place to rant about problems in the world.  A greater deal of freedom is allowed on the *user* talk page, provided it doesn't bother any user.  Although, if somebody just wants to debate, there are lots of better places to do that.  There are countless "free-for-all" message boards out there.  I don't understand the reason for wanting to use wikipedia as one.  --rob 06:25, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
 * If so, I haven't seen it enforced anywhere else. And there are plenty of articles full of commentary like this for topics that strike a chord one way or another. The most recent I can think of is Jean Charles de Menezes. I maintain that this rule has been written like it was intended to prevent contamination of the articles, not to censor talk pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.95.128.51 (talk • contribs) July 28, 2005
 * I looked at the Menezes article and I disagree. The users there are engaging in discussion, which includes expressing their points of view, which is just what a discussion page is for. They're just sorting out the details of what happened and why. No one spontaneously wrote several paragraphs of pure opinion. However, I agree that there was no particular need to delete the sections from this page that were pure opinion. --Tysto 16:05, 2005 July 29 (UTC)


 * Also, There's another Wikipedia rule Ignore all rules that means you can pretty much do what you want but beware that other people can pretty much do what they want including interpreting the Wikipedia is not a soapbox rule. Wikipedia is run by consensus, not by hard and fast rules. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MPS (talk • contribs) July 29, 2005

Groupthink
"Media critics suggest that this speculation often leads to a kind of poorly-founded consensus called groupthink. Those involved in the investigation of the case (detectives, prosecutors, etc.) are invited onto the shows and asked pointed and accusatory questions suggesting that they are incompetent or negligent. Sometimes, the suspects themselves are invited on the shows and asked similarly pointed and accusatory questions about their involvement."

Can someone explain exactly what this has to do with groupthink? It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the formal academic theory of groupthink as formulated by Janis, and while it may qualify for the informal corruption of the term to mean "consensus created by conformity", there's no reason to even mention the term "groupthink" in that case. -- Antaeus Feldspar 16:19, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I added the groupthink reference after finding it in the Buzzflash article, which I added to the references and after reviewing the WP article on groupthink. I was not describing MWWS as groupthink, however, but rather the false consensus that news media arrive at about what happened to the woman and who is guilty. That seemed to me to conform quite closely to Janis's criteria describing groupthink (illusion of invulnerability, unquestioned belief, collective rationalization of group's decisions, shared stereotypes of outgroup, illusion of unanimity, pressure on dissenters, etc.). We're talking pop psychology, but it's not my term, seemed appropriate, and was backed by citation. I'm satisfied with false consensus effect, tho.--Tysto 17:10, 2005 August 9 (UTC)


 * Well, if you'll forgive my saying so, a lot of people misuse the word "groupthink" because they only look at how situations are similar to Janis' antecedent conditions and fail to look at how they're different. Janis's research was based on situations where the social cohesiveness of a decision-making group interferes with their ability to make the best and most realistic decisions.  To apply it to people who aren't operating as a group, let alone a highly socially-cohesive group, is to misapply it. -- Antaeus Feldspar 01:46, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


 * So if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck but is green, a sociologist believes that it is not a green duck but an as-yet-undefined duck-like phenomenon? This is why sociology gets no respect. ;-) --Tysto 02:58, 2005 August 10 (UTC)


 * Measles causes a child to break out in red spots. However, when a car breaks out in red spots, we say that it is rusting, not that it has "auto measles".  The fact that they are undergoing similar effects is rather outweighed by the fact that those effects cannot have the same cause.  Likewise, when a decision-making group appears to have been led into making a bad decision by the social cohesiveness of the group, we call it "groupthink".  When the "group" is really more of a class of people in the same situation who probably have little or no social interaction with each other, to call it "groupthink" brought on by social cohesiveness is not just describing an effect but attributing it to a cause that makes no sense. -- Antaeus Feldspar 22:57, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I get you now. That is a much clearer explanation of groupthink than exists on its article page. The article lists high social cohesiveness as a condition that encourages groupthink rather than as the primary trait. However, I didn't mean to suggest that the whole news media covering a missing white woman operates as a cohesive group, only that each show does. But they also influence, compete with, and conform to each other (hence the greenness of my duck), which confuses the matter. It's better to leave out the mention of groupthink entirely. --Tysto 04:49, 2005 August 11 (UTC)

History of "Missing White Woman Syndrome"
I agree with the article that MWWS is largely a modern media phenomenon, but perhaps it would be interesting to include several prominent cases from history (Mary Phagan is the one that springs to mind) that could be called forerunners of this phenomenon. In the example of Phagan, the media coverage in nationwide newspapers does seem to fit many of the criteria given on this page. I'm sure there are others.--BrendanMLeonard 15:25, 2005 August 27 (UTC)

Welcome to the club
In the city of Richmond, Virginia a college student by the name of Taylor Marie Behl is apparently missing. The 17-year old freshman was last reported missing after her car appears to be found with Ohio tags that were reported stolen. Is this a new face to the ever growing controversy "Missing White Women Syndrome". As Fox News begins their campaign for another "saga" filled news coverage in which a person of interest is found and blamed for the disappearence, or apparent murder. Then becomes lamblasted by the media next, then later the charges are dropped and then they rally for toucher crimes for each state, then after the week passes, the girl will be found alive, and then they never apologize for the inconvience of the person they accused or the viewer who had to watch the contstant news coverage and malfunction the views of others who believe that when it comes to the missing, it's just not a "black and white" issue. Oh, I can't wait until the next suburban white girl comes in to the picture. LILVOKA 18 September 2005


 * Taylor Behl was murdered, her body found in a shallow grave. Another student, Monica Sharp, from the same town has been missing since September 18. The media went all out for Taylor Behl and still are, but there's practically nothing on Monica Sharp. She's black. Police deny bias. Yeah, right. Maluka 04:17, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The police don't tell the media who to go ape over. Peyna 03:24, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes and no- they can choose who they give press conferences about and whose case they promote more. (Not saying they did or didn't do that in this case, just saying they have that power.) Whateverlolawants 03:04, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * They know what people go crazy for already. You gonna blame them for anticipating it?  Every name is taken12345 05:22, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

White Supremicist Warning
Doesn't the addition of a "warning" in the link to the National Vanguard site indicate a value judgment that violates NPOV? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.108.242.221 (talk • contribs) September 25, 2005
 * National Vanguard is a considered a racist site. Their contributions are usually bringing in negative towards non-white, Jewish and Islamic people. Please continue to use the warning tag. LILVOKA 00:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree the warning should be used. Maluka 10:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Germany?
"This syndrome appears to be most prevalent in US media, but famous examples can also be found in the United Kingdom and Germany, among others." – I think that at least a handful of examples should be given for each country to substantiate this statement. I'd be especially grateful for examples of MWWS in Germany as I can't think of any. --Maikel 11:11, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I have removed Germany from that sentence since no instances were brought forward. Maikel 20:01, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

United Kingdom?
What is the evidence of MWWS in the UK? The only British case listed is Sarah Payne and we could possibly talk about the Soham murders. But there was also a lot of media coverage of the Damilola Taylor and Victoria Climbie cases (both involving black children). I propose deleting mention of the UK unless someone can show (a) disproportionate media coverage of MWW in the UK (considering that ethnic minorities make up a smaller proportion of the UK compared to the US population) or (b) use of this term within a British context. Fionah 10:48, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I can't really speak to part (a) of your suggestion, but I can say as an American, that MWWS is by no means a commonly known term here. It's pretty specific to sociology/media studies etc.  I don't think that lack of use of or awareness of the term in the UK necessarily means that MWWS can have no manifestations there.  And it needn't be an extremely pervasive phenomenon there to be mentioned either.  It's just one theory about the media and public awareness.  There is my 2 cents.--Hraefen 17:12, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You must live in a shoebox, then. Because there are plenty of references to MWWS in this very article, most written this year. This was a hot button argument all through 2005, the Year of the Missing White Girl. Rattlerbrat 19:16, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


 * What are you talking about Rattlerbrat? If you're gonna start a personal attack, at least be clear about what you're saying and who you'r directing it at.--Hraefen 19:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I added some text about MWWS in a UK context. My background is psychology not sociology or media studies, so the section could probably do with some editing. The issue has been in the news lately with the police commissioner's comments. (I currently live in Ireland but we get the British news. I was in Britain at the time of the Soham murders, and there was indeed blanket coverage.) Fionah 10:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Part of the many problems with this article is that "MWWS" is a neologism unknown to the vast majority of the world population, and specifically the US and UK. It's original research when an article lists examples of "MWWS" that cannot be literally cited as such. The names must be taken from outside sources that discuss "MWWS", and those sources must provide the names. Names cannot be added to the "MWWS" list simply because a contributor knows of an abductee/murder victim who fits the description of the term. A list of "well known minority abductees and murder victims in the US and UK" might have some value, but that is not the same as a list of "documented/asserted cases of MWWS."
 * To put it simply, don't cite victims who aren't literally cited in outside source material that refers specifically to the "MWWS" phenomenon. It's not the job of Wikipedia authors to make determinations about which victims can be presented as examples of "MWWS" and which cannot. It is the job of Wikipedia authors to present outside source materially factually, accurately, and objectively. Joseph N Hall 18:40, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

If anyone needs it, there is now CLEAR, incontrovertible evidence of MWWS in the UK. Madeleine McCann.77.44.50.57 15:16, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

The missing person case of Suzy Lamplugh is another candidate. Xn4 13:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Another Candidate (Feb-Apr '08): Shannon Matthews. --Mark PEA (talk) 11:13, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

kuro5hin article
Please see my comments here; would this link be appropriate to be added to "Missing white woman syndrome"? The article specifically addresses the issue, which might make it more relevant that other editors deemed it was to the Natalee Holloway article. Does anyone object to my adding the link? -Kasreyn 09:00, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * No one has objected. I will assume this means no one minds.  I will add the material.  Please direct any comments to this section of the talk page.  -Kasreyn 09:21, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Is it time to add "Teacher and Student Relationship Media Syndrome"?
It's getting to a point where you'll hear a beautiful teacher and a troubled student get into a forbiden relationship. Where as the teacher has an affair with a student (or others) and gambles their teaching career, as well as, the family relationships in the process. It's a shame, that CNN, Fox News and MSNBC as well as the newspapers make haste to constantly cover news stories that overshadow an already dramatic session of life! LILVOKA.
 * I hear you, but the media have not coined a phrase akin to MWWS... perhaps you wish to add your gripe to media hype (no rhyming intended!) MPS 00:26, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

This subject is a completely different one. After all, those white women were never missing to begin with.

Although, we've been seeing many cases in the limelight where white women were the main subject of those stories. KyuuA4 16:15, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Irrelevant Missing White Women?
It seems the list of missing white women is really long. A lot of these names don't mean anything to me (not that I'm an expert), so I'm wondering if they really belong on this list. What should be the standard for inclusion on the "missing white females" list? Articles from a certain number of national news outlets? It's a grey area, but the list loses all meaning if we're adding women who didn't receive that much air-time simply because they're white and disappeared. On the other, a lot of missing white women do get a lot of air-time... Any ideas? DejahThoris 23:43, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I've removed Jamie Bertholf from the list of missing white women, as coverage of her case seems to have been limited to local news sources. The CNN story on the flooding mentions the body of a 15 year-old girl being found, but does not give her name. This does not seem like an example of a media frenzy over a missing white girl. DejahThoris 00:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Very Interesting
I heard that a five year old by the name of Destiny Norton was found murdered in SLC, Utah. The little girl was playing in her backyard and then was abducted later that afternoon. A few days later, police found the child in one of her neighbor's house. Sevkija Ferhatovic was first held in custody, but later released. Then Craig Gregerson, a 20-year old man was arraigned and booked in for the murder of the child. He raped and suffocated the young girl. The AMBER ALERT, Fox News, MSNBC and my own news channel made comments on it. I feel real bad for the family of the Destiny Norton, and hope there's closure to an already troubling situation. I wish there could of been a great ending. But nevertheless, I want to assume this is one of the issues that fit in MWWS/MPGS. Niqui McCowen (a woman from Richmond, Indiana (but has family and friends in Dayton, Ohio) is still missing after five years, and no representatives of media to bring significant attention towards her. I'm sorry it's America. Yes, America. LILVOKA 21:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

This Article Screams Original Research
I understand that this article documents a real phenomenon, but the article itself is an essay. Joseph N Hall 08:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, it's loaded with weasel words. Joseph N Hall 11:29, 4 September 2006 (UTC) By that, I mean - for example (emphasis added):

 Missing white woman syndrome, also known as missing pretty girl syndrome, is a tongue-in-cheek term coined by some media critics to reference a form of media hype in which excessive news coverage is devoted to a specific missing or murdered white women and girls, while virtually ignoring missing men, non-white women, or other news stories. According to these critics, reporting of these stories often lasts for several days or weeks, sometimes even months, and displaces reporting on other current events that some people consider more newsworthy, such as economics and politics. This syndrome appears to be most prevalent in U.S. media, but famous examples can also be found elsewhere in the world, e. g. the United Kingdom.

Joseph N Hall 23:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Please do not remove the Original Research tag without discussion. At the least, place citations in the body of the text where appropriate. Joseph N Hall 03:19, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree - I think there's a real, honest-to-goodness valid article here, but POV, weaselspeak, and original research need to be weeded out. I tried to do a little reshaping...will try to look for more sources on this. NickBurns 15:15, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

The central part of the article is still awkward but this is definitely going in the right direction now. There are unquestionably enough citations to put together a good article. The problem is/was that the original article was written off the cuff. It's tricky where POV is concerned, because "MWWS" is most often used as a surrogate for an argument about racism, but the subtext is usually not that explicit. The argument is usually a) "If it were a black girl ...." vs b) "Well, the media just gives people what they want." Then "well the public is racist," etc etc. IMO the way to handle this article is to cite and summarize relevant sources in the most matter of fact way possible. It's going to sound a little lopsided because you won't find anyone arguing that the coverage of young kidnap victims isn't out of whack because the facts don't support that. The thing that's important is to avoid extrapolating conclusions from those facts unless there are sources for those conclusions, and also to avoid over-citing sources that clearly have axes to grind beyond simple coverage of the media. Just my (long) $.02. Joseph N Hall 05:42, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

In defense of supposed "weasel words": Some, most, almost</i>, <i style="color: red;">virtually</i>, <i style="color: red;">often</i>, <i style="color: red;">frequently</i>, <i style="color: red;">appears</i>, and other words of that ilk are not prima facie evidence of falsity or bad faith. Granted, high school lessons in critical thinking and writing often group them together under the label of "weasel words" in an effort to make students aware of their potential use in deliberately misleading arguments. That doesn't permanently invalidate their use. "Almost everyone likes cheesecake" is a more accurate statement than Sara Lee's "Nobody doesn't like cheesecake." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.225.217.252 (talk • contribs) November 18, 2006

POV
There is absolutely no discussion about how this thing could be false. There has been no scientific paper or real discussion in news media that discusses this topic. To have it on this site means that those who dispute this thing should have their say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Auno3 (talk • contribs) September 24, 2006


 * It's certainly a very low quality article. It doesn't need an endlessly-growing list of "MWWS victims." That could be a list - I suppose. The section about "Media Involvement" is an original essay with no references or citations and should be completely eliminated. As I said above, I don't have any problem with the idea that there is a media bias in the reporting of missing persons - it's quite arguably real. It is probably a worthwhile topic although at its heart it is just a summary of editorial material. But it should be limited to coverage of the term "MWWS" and definitely not developed into a lengthy position piece. Joseph N Hall 12:35, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Follow the "what links here" link for fun. "Vox populi, Vox Dei" --Jerome Potts 07:50, 14 November 2006 (UTC) (no it's not mine)

This topic needs some hard statistical analysis
And by statistical analysis, I mean someone needs to compare the kidnapping/murder frequencies of white and non-white females (a rather arbitrarity distinction in many cases) with the frequencies of TV reports of kidnapped/murdered white and non-white females. Citing individual cases proves absolutely nothing about any bias that may or may not exist, even if you cite 100 cases. To really prove that a bias exists or doesn't exist, you'd need to look at all the data for, say, 5 years of kidnappings/murders and TV reports.

This would be quite an undertaking, but until such a study is done, any statement that there is a media bias is emotionally-based conjecture and therefore worthless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Primarscources (talk • contribs)


 * You're right, of course. We do need to report it as an accusation, since it's a real accusation that is prevalent, but since there aren't any real studies, we shouldn't report that the accusation is established fact.
 * Also note that Michelle Malkin is quoted as referring to it as "missing pretty girl syndrome" without the racial aspect, and I think a much better case could be made for it that way. Ken Arromdee 05:09, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * i really really prefer when people use "abducted" rather than "kidnapped", especially when applying to an adult. Thanks to the British, they can speak properly. --Jerome Potts 07:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, it's interesting how the minority children who have received national attention are mysteriously left out. In all fairness, this article makes no mention of:


 * Aarone Thompson
 * Quadrevion Henning
 * Purvis Parker
 * Asha Degree
 * Diamond and Tionda Bradley
 * Ahmad King
 * Analyce Guerra
 * Tyreek Davis
 * Karesse Ebron
 * Crystal Figueroa
 * Tamra Keepness
 * Teekah Lewis
 * Elian Gonzalez
 * Alexis Patterson
 * Monica Sharp
 * Rilya Wilson
 * Sofia Juarez

No Stone Unturned 02:34, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * A good place to start would be the Doe Network . It's one of the few resources that handles missing adult cases. If you crunch the numbers for adults, you find that a) there are more missing black women in the US than women of all other races combined, b) there are more missing men than women, and c) there are far, far more long-term missing persons than most people even dream about. -- Charlene 15:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It is not the place of Wikipedia to do original research the validity of this term, but to document its use and describe its meaning in context. Aside from that, Elian Gonzalez (the only name on your list this news junkie even recognizes) was never missing. --Tysto 19:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * While of course that's true, it's also true for most cases that are listed in the article. Whether a case may be classified as MWWS is a decision that Wikipedians can't make; it's original research.  All we can do is see if some source describes the case as MWWS, and only then list it.  Every case that is not backed up with a source calling it MWWS should be removed. Ken Arromdee 20:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Imette St. Guillen
I removed Imette's listing from the cases of Missing White Woman Syndrome because she is, of course, not white. She is Hispanic, of Venezuelan heritage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.245.161.245 (talk • contribs) October 28, 2006


 * What about Lacy Peterson then? She was a Latina. Jcb10


 * Laci Peterson may have been part Hispanic; however since the public and the media perceived her as being "white," her inclusion in the listing is appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.73.107.41 (talk • contribs) April 10, 2007

Who cares?
Odile Harington was imprisoned in Zimbabwe on charges of spying for the old South African government. She is white and she is missing. South Africa has come a long way since then and some time back a series of adverts were aired on SABC to help celebrate how well South Africans are able to deal with racism and transformation. The ads took the form of two so-called racist jokes told from different perspectives: "How do you save a black man from drowning? You take your foot off his head." and "What do you get if a white man falls off a skyscraper? Who cares." Gregorydavid 15:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Some suggestions
It would be better if this article listed similar murders/disappearances of white victims and minority victims and the disparity in coverage. For example, Natalee Holloway went missing from Aruba after being in a club. I know there was a case of a black woman who went missing from a club in Miami which obviously received a lot less coverage than Holloway. Since those cases are very similar, one could argue that Natalee received more attention because she was white, rather than because of the circumstances of her disappearance. Some murders mentioned on here, have very unique factors that caused them to garner national coverage. Can we name any other victim besides JonBenet who participated in child beauty pageants? Or another victim besides Chandra Levy who was having an affair with a Congressman when she disappeared? If JonBenet and Chandra had been minorities, but everything else in their cases had been the same, would they still receive coverage? I would say that controversial beauty pageant videos and affairs with Congressmen would trump race, so in my opinion, yes.

Also, some of the cases listed received just a blip of coverage. Taylor Behl brings up 207 articles and 164 for Maura Murray. Shaniya Davis, a murdered biracial child, brings up 198 articles. How can we include Behl and Murray as examples of excessive coverage compared to minorities when Shaniya got the same amount of coverage?