Talk:Missouri/Archive 3

Ethnicities
Latinos are a rapidly growing segment of Missouri's population. Some counties in the western and eastern parts with fast-growth suburbs developed large Hispanic populations in the 1990s. Mexican-American and other Hispanic communities are found in the Kansas City, St. Louis and Joplin-Springfield areas.[citation needed] The state also has Asian Americans; the majority are Filipinos who have established a small community in Kansas City, but other Asian ethnic groups also live in major urban areas.[citation needed] A Hindu temple was recently built outside St. Louis to serve Indian residents.

This part really needs to be changed. Besides the fact that there are cites, it is ridiculous sounding. "There are Asian Americans." I think that goes without saying. Might as well say, "we aren't racists or rednecks, trust us, we have minorities here." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.86.92 (talk) 06:56, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I almost removed that when it was added, but I opted for citation-needed templates instead. I've removed it now.  If sources can be found, I'd be willing to help add it back in, but with better prose. Grey Wanderer (talk) 18:06, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

St. Louis bias continued
I am adding on the page that Kansas City is Missouri's largest city. I will keep the urban areas thing, but most people don't care about "urban areas" they want to know WHAT CITY is the largest in the state. It seems to me it's another attempt at St. Louisians to try to "brag" about their city despite the fact that the municipality of Kansas City, Missouri is 100,000 people larger than the municipality of St. Louis, MO.


 * See the conversation below, and the archived ones, both Kansas City and St. Louis are mentioned in the infobox as largest city and metropolitan area, respectively. The use of urban area specifically instead of the words city or metropolitan area is the best compromise I can see being engineered between the two sides.  Assuming you are enorton, which judging by your style grammer, and the arguments you have consistently raised, you are the only editor who has expressed such a aggressively KC point-of-view without bending or accepting the current compromise.  Please don't change it again, unless a new consensus is reached here.  A new consensus could happen, even if I think it's unlikely, but you have to give time for several editors to look at it.-Grey Wanderer | Talk 20:12, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

St. Louis bias again
There seems to be too much of a lean twoards St. Louis on this page. I am from Kansas City, and I am sick and tired of St. Louis people trying to dominate everything. It made me sick to see "St. Louis, the largest metro in the state" and then talk about the Louis and Clark expedition. First off, this is an article on MISSOURI not St. Louis. If you want to include that info fine, but do it in the STL article. Second of all, the largest "metro". Metro is a collection of cities. THere was no St. Louis metro when that expedition was launched. If you would have said "St. Louis, the SECOND largst city..." then mabye it would be different. St. Lousisans on here need to accept the fact that KC is a bigger city. Case closed. I have gotten into numerous debates about this and I grudgengly accept the "Largest metro" statistic in the infobox. But this crosses the line. I have deleted that little "St. Louis" bit from the introduction to missouri. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Enorton (talk • contribs) 21:40, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Having a hard time agreeing you, you've demonstrated a pretty heavy bias before and most editors seem to think that the page is pretty balanced. No one is out to attack Kansas City, we're here to write about it. Grey Wanderer | Talk 18:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

"The four largest URBAN AREAS ARE, in descending order, "St. Louis, MO", "Kansas City, MO",......". My question: Why are we even mentioning URBAN AREAS? Why are we not mentioning the largest cities or metropolitan areas. To me, this is just another way for St. Louians to try to tell the world how they are bigger than Kansas City. They really need to get over this. Kansas City has a larger population than St. Louis in terms of city propper. Stop underplaying this role. Many people feel that the city proper population is what counts and some feel it is the metro population. Again, it depends on the person. Stop trying to downplay KC's role as the largest city in Missouri. This is rediculous. I have erased this statistic, because Urban Area is a statistic that isn't even important or relavent. You may have an argument with the "metro area" statistic, however, that is still going to be controversial. How about we just write about our STATE not about how St. Louis is somehow (and I doubt the fact) the largest "urban" area in the state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.26.28.84 (talk) 05:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Enorton, I was the one who wrote the intro to the Missouri page, which includes the section you think has spin. I weighed the options of using the United States census definitions of cities, metropolitan areas, or urban areas. Part of the reason I spent time determining which would be the best, most accurate definition to use was due to your claims of Saint Louis "propaganda" on this page. This is a list of options I weighed:


 * Five largest urban areas in Missouri: St. Louis, Kansas City, Springfield, Columbia, St. Joseph. ♦ My source
 * Five largest metroplitan areas in Missouri: St. Louis, Kansas City, Springfield, Joplin, Columbia. ♦ agree that the determination of the largest metropolitan v/population/www/estimates/metro_general/2006/CBSA-EST2006-01.csv My source
 * Five largest cities in Missouri: Kansas City, St. Louis Springfield, Independence, Columbia. ♦ My source
 * I concluded without difficulty that the urban area construct was the most accurate and useful. Wikipedia claims that " Urban areas are among the most accurate measure of a city's true size, due to the fact that they are all measured from the same criteria."   Among the flaws of the other two definitions are that the words city and metropolitan area are of a much more ambiguous nature, and won't always be associated with U.S. census statistics.


 * I understand your love for Kansas City, I wrote the intro on the Kansas City page as well, but you keep claiming that I'm attacking KC or pushing St. Louis, neither of which I'm doing and you are the only editor that has made that assertion. Please discuss here before reverting again, and feel free to make suggestions to improve the article. Thanks. Grey Wanderer | Talk 20:15, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with the determination of the largest metropolitan area. The only reason St. Louis City isn't the largest city is the break of the St. Louis County from the city a while back.  Alatari (talk) 15:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually at the time it was the city that requested that break. (Over 100 years ago when St Louis City was much better off than the rest of St Louis County while now the reverse is the case). I'm also not so sure we could outright state that had they not split the population within city limits would be larger than K.C. Any guess on how much more territory it would have annexed if this had not occured is extremely speculative especally given the history of Missouri's annexation laws. We can say though that while St Louis City is drawfed by St Louis County, Kansas City drawfs the non-KC portion of it's county. Anyway continue to list both largest city & largest metro. Jon (talk) 17:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I couldn't tell whether this was the Missouri page or the St. Louis page with all the bias, and I wasn't surprised to see this subject on the talk page either. Four out of the six photos are of St. Louis (excluding the largest cities photos.). I just thought this should be pointed out, wikipedia is becomming less and less credible when they let the 'majority' run their pages. I wonder if anything will be done? SakuraAvalon86 (talk) 01:34, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

The page could do with a little more information about KC. I notice that the history section makes no mention of the Pony Express, the Oregon Trail, or President Truman, but it does mention the Louis and Clark Expedition and little known "St. Louis Massacre". Readin (talk) 16:45, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I would encourage you all to be bold and add such information in yourself - even the basics, which would serve as a starting point. If necessary, Ozark-area history may also need to be similarly improved, along with other potential information about other areas (hey, we wouldn't want to be accused of moving from a St. Louis bias to a St. Louis/KC bias). umrguy  42  17:01, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Omission of Lincoln University
I am saddened to note that the article on Missouri failed to list Lincoln University among those mentioned in the Colleges and Universities, as Lincoln, a historically Black University sits in the middle of Jefferson City, the State's Capital.

It was founded in 1866 by members of the 62nd and 65th United States Colored Infantry under the name "Lincoln Institute" for the purpose of providing an education to African Americans through the combining of academics and labor. In 1921, it was officially designated a university by the state of Missouri and changed its name to "Lincoln University of Missouri." In 1954, it opened its doors to applicants of all races, and it currently provides both undergraduate and graduate courses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.16.43.46 (talk) 14:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I suspect it's admitted because it is as notable as dozens of other universities in Missouri and one we start listing one, it is a slippery slope and the article just becomes a list of universities in Missouri (which actually has it's own page). I feel that we should stick to universities that are ranked in educational journals. I could see a place for it listed with the other public schools, if you feel that way perhaps you should be bold and list it. Grey Wanderer | Talk 18:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Notable colleges
I used [http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php “America's Best Colleges 2008: National Universities: Top Schools.” USNews.com:. January 18, 2008.] to help decide what is WP:N for Missouri schools to list. If it's in the top 100 it better be listed. Rolla has dropped heavily and I'm shocked. Alatari (talk) 15:45, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Good source Alatari, I've been watching that section for a while to make sure it doesn't become a list of universities in Missouri. I've always keep it pruned to those two private schools, albeit  without a source, because I know they are highly ranked.-Grey Wanderer | Talk 16:10, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Missouri Portal
The Missouri Portal was recently created at Portal:Missouri. -Grey Wanderer | Talk 03:53, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The portal now needs to become more populated with articles, this is largely a cut and paste job. If anyone needs help figuring it out let me know. Grey Wanderer | Talk 05:31, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Midwest or South?
Should Missouri just be listed as a "midwestern" state? I know "midwest" is a vague term similar to "middle class" where various groups claiming it. It's a term used to describe Ohio, Michigan, Indiana etc. as well as Kansas, Nebraska, Dakotas. It is my understanding depending on the county, different people in the state call themselves "southern" or "midwestern", probably a north vs. south thing. In any event Missouri fought (mostly) for the south in the civil war and borders AR and TN as well as IL. If it is labeled as midwestern there should at least be a qualification, imo66.72.215.225 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 20:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, since we've had this discussion before, I *think* (skimming through) the consensus (if any) was for Midwestern, or possibly "Border" - but that most people didn't think of Missouri (any more, at least) as "Southern". Anyways, people who've been around longer feel free to correct me. Anyway, basically, what the previous discussion seemed to state was that St. Louis has the Northern/Eastern feel, the Bootheel has the Southern feel, KC is a Western town, and the rural areas seem to trend more towards the Midwestern agricultural feel. (If not already mentioned, I might suggest that the northwest corner may tend to the Great Plains agricultural model, but I couldn't back that up with any kind of scholarship, so...). --Umrguy42 (talk) 01:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "If it is labeled as midwestern there should at least be a qualification, imo" - re-reading the archive more carefully, apparently the US Census Bureau (and CNN) classifies Missouri as "Midwestern". Not sure if that's the kind of "qualification" you were looking for, but that would at least be "official" sourcing for the term, anyway. Hope this helps. --Umrguy42 (talk) 01:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

The "Midwestern" label in the intro is expanded on in the geography section. As far as the civil war goes Wikipedia says: "By the end of the Civil War, Missouri had supplied nearly 110,000 troops for the Union Army and about 40,000 troops for the Confederate Army." Grey Wanderer | Talk 05:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * This is another depends upon what part of the state you live in issue. There's more details in the articles about the Midwestern & Southern regions of the country themselves. "Border state" though amounts to an obsolete term if used to describe MO, KY, WV, MD, or DE today, it's orgins were the Civil War and didn't last much longer for contemporary usage (as opposed to describing regions of the country around the time of the Civil War) than those that fought in it. Jon (talk) 18:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it's useful to use the US Census Bureau classification as the official one, then you can add qualifiers about what people in different areas think.--Parkwells (talk) 17:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

New License Plate
The picture of the "current" license plate is out of date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.77.139.254 (talk) 19:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * There's still somethink like 1 1/2 more years before all the vechicles with the now old style license plate (without the state outline) come up to renewal and are replaced. Also there's upteen different styles of vanity plates in Missouri. Jon (talk) 18:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Jay Nixon is not the governor **yet**
I would imagine that standard wikipedia practice is to change the Governor when the new one is inaugurated. Somebody got impatient, no? Just checking the policy before I go ahead and switch it back to M Blunt.Davidduck (talk) 04:36, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

postal abbreviation
I came here looking for the postal abbreviation. Is Michigan or Missiouri "MI"? No clue. I thought this would be the place to check! ClintJCL (talk) 20:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Missouri is "MO"Readin (talk) 21:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Possession of children with alcohol
Someone posted a citation for this, however this goes in contradiction to this law which expressly states that a minor under the age of 21 in posssesion, blood alcohol level, etc. HAS committed a crime. The statute referenced in the article appears to be an exception to another law regarding prosecution of selling it. It still doesn't make it legal, nor does the current posted reference, expressly state that parents/guardians may give alcohol to their children. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.39.190.203 (talk) 03:59, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * While the unsigned contributor is correct that Missouri recently criminalized "who is visibly intoxicated as defined in section 577.001, RSMo, or has a detectable blood alcohol content of more than two-hundredths of one percent or more by weight of alcohol in such person's blood" in the statute he cited, another section (which was cited), 311.310, R.S.Mo., expressly allows any minor's "parent or guardian" to "procure for, sell, give away or otherwise supply intoxicating liquor to any person under the age of twenty-one years." As mentioned in Alcohol laws of Missouri, it remains unclear how these two statutes will play together, and the Missouri courts have not yet addressed this conflict.  For the time being, however, there remains no absolute prohibition on minors consuming alcohol (only being intoxicated), and parents/guardians are expressly allows to provide alcohol to their children.  I have undid the proceeding unsigned contributor's reversion. 66.141.255.18 (talk) 17:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Private Army
I have seen on the History Channel, related channels that described the Militia Movement, some reasons for it. The 51st Missouri Militia was featured on this AS a Private Army. This should be mentioned in this article. Powerzilla (talk) 16:26, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

sate sites
Missouri has over 83 state parks you can even see the original battle filed for the civil war —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.255.90.132 (talk) 00:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Northern Cherokee
There is a potentially related article that really needs help "Northern Cherokee" and I was hoping to petition for someone to help who is better informed about Missouri and the people living there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.230.83 (talk) 14:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Urban Areas vs. Cities
Before, the main page listed the largest "Urban Areas" in the state. That is ridiculous, and is a clear attempt at putting St. Louis' name first over Kansas City. Kansas City is the largest city in the state, and the "urban area" statistic is almost unheard of and rarely followed. People would care more about order of cities or metropolitan areas first, not urban areas. Check any textbook and you will find nothing about a state's largest "urban areas"; instead you will find largest cities. Just because someone from St. Louis feels its unfair that KC is larger is no excuse to misinform wikipedia readers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.8.212.191 (talk) 07:12, 7 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The wording was specifically chosen to be accurate and as neutral as possible. See Talk:Missouri/Archive 3. Grey Wanderer (talk) 15:32, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

The first post should be the impetus for a category about Kansas City's cultural inferiority complex. Go ask the NFL and its advertisers is they care if KC has larger a population for the political entity called Kansas City vs the political entity St. Louis as opposed to the fact that the St. Louis Metropolitan area has 1.2 Million more viewers that Kansas City Metro. Oh and by the way the US census keeps copius statistics on the size and make up metropolitan areas.

Notable Missourians
List should be alphabetized by last names of people.--Parkwells (talk) 21:31, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I am not sure if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_from_Missouri is the list being discussed but I would generally agree that lists of names should either be alphabetical by last name, then first, then middle or by date of birth, date of death or some other univeral criteria.MOHistorian (talk) 03:43, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Lambert Field
I removed the mention of Lambert Field as an American Airlines hub since that is no longer true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.76.96.23 (talk) 16:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

politics
someone should add a section on the states politics —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.52.83 (talk) 02:26, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Missouri State Insignia
Is there a reason why some official insignia are not displayed (ex. state dessert) and other unofficial items (ex. quarter) are displayed? The only reason I could determine is the text box is full. Please be patient with this newby.MOHistorian (talk) 03:36, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The states Insignia is on its flag, and IDK, I think the rest isn't needed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.245.235.133 (talk) 04:33, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Temperature values
It would be more useful to readers if maintainers of the page consider using metric equivalents to the temperature. Not everyone who reads the article can understand arcane and obsolete units of measurement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.11.13.45 (talk) 05:12, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Judging by your childish comment I suspect that simple arithmetic must be difficult for you. But I bet if you tried reeeeealy hard you could make the edits yourself, since that is the whole point of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.255.240.10 (talk) 22:06, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Religion:Anglicanism
The article fails to mention the Congress of St. Louis, in which the Continuing Anglican movement was started and churches broke away from the Episcopal Church USA (part of the Anglican Communion). I think this would be a good thing to add under the religion subsection in demographics. Also, the statistics in the religion subsection say that 4% of the Christians in Missouri are Anglican, and that that four percent is Episcopalian.. but that is not true. Many continuing Anglican denominations exist in Missouri, such as the Anglican Catholic Church. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 21:44, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Significant Omission about Missouri's Agricultural Products
"Missouri is home to one-third of all commercial dog breeding facilities in the U.S.—as many as the next three largest dog-breeding states combined—and supplies more than 40 percent of all puppies sold in pet stores nationwide. No matter where you live, there’s a good chance that the puppies in the window of your local pet store came from a Missouri puppy mill."

The above quote is from "Puppy Mill Victory in Missouri Threatened by Repeal" linked to in ASPCA TRI-STATE NEWS ALERT - Latest News from the Frontlines of Animal Welfare - January 7, 2011

The complete article: Puppy Mill Victory in Missouri Threatened by Repeal One of the biggest stories in the animal welfare world in 2010 was the grassroots campaign to pass Proposition B, the Missouri Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention Act. It was a tough battle, but in the end, the Show-Me State’s long-suffering puppy mill dogs won the hearts and mind of the voters and passed by a popular majority, ushering in a new era for our nation’s undisputed puppy mill capital. Unfortunately, this story’s happy ending is now in jeopardy. Several state-level senators and representatives serving in the Missouri General Assembly have expressed their intentions to pursue full or partial repeals of Prop B. But the numbers don’t lie: November’s vote proved that the majority of Missourians do not approve of keeping dogs in tiny cages for their entire lives, or forcing them to bear litter after litter without any time to recover. For state lawmakers to dismiss the decision of voting citizens is an affront to democracy and illustrates a stunning lack of respect for the intelligence of their constituents. Missouri is home to one-third of all commercial dog breeding facilities in the U.S.—as many as the next three largest dog-breeding states combined—and supplies more than 40 percent of all puppies sold in pet stores nationwide. No matter where you live, there’s a good chance that the puppies in the window of your local pet store came from a Missouri puppy mill. Implementation of the Missouri Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention Act (scheduled for November) will impact other states, and so would the Act’s repeal. Allowing Missouri’s many substandard commercial breeders to continue treating dogs as they always have means that the flood of unhealthy puppies will continue unabated into pet stores. Missouri’s state legislature convened earlier this week for its 2011 session. The ASPCA is asking Missouri citizens to contact their elected officials, many of whom are new to this issue, to express their opposition to any effort to repeal Prop B. If you don’t live in Missouri but still want to help, please spread the word by sharing this article via Facebook and Twitter.

69.118.32.141 (talk) 21:14, 11 March 2011 (UTC)Gerald Reiser in Dutchess County, New York

Please don't try to use Wikipedia talk pages for political advocacy, either on or off Wikipedia. Thank you. umrguy 42  21:48, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation of the name
I am not from Missouri so I can't speak with any authority, but I would appreciate opinions from Missouri residents about each of the pronunciation in the sound files at the beginning of the article. Both of them sound odd to me. The first one sounds like it is slurred: "Mi-ZR-ee". Is the "ssour" really pronounced without a vowel sound? As for the second one, I always thought ending the word with "uh" was simply a mispronunciation by people who don't know that it's wrong (similar to pronouncing "Cincinnati" to end with the "uh" sound, which is definitely wrong). Do a substantial number of Missouri residents actually end the word with "uh"? I would appreciate some expert opinions. 24.163.39.217 (talk) 02:01, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Only politicians and people that aren't from Missouri say "Missouruh". People that don't care for the state say "mizree" as in misery... Based on my 24 years of MO observations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.137.186.42 (talk) 17:39, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

My parents are from northern Missouri (Kirksville and Trenton) and they said "Missourah". They also say "Cincinnatah", so it is a dialectal thing. Sadly, the old dialect is quickly disappearing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.81.136.8 (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't know about "official" pronunciations, but yeah, it seems often like a rural vs urban thing as well, people who say "Missouruh" seem to be more likely from the rural portions of the state. That said, to address the original comment, I would say in general it's prounced "mi-ZUR-ee" (or "mi-ZUR-uh"), with a definite vowel sound AND stress on the second syllable.  umrguy  42  18:46, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

The listed pronunciation was cited from the Merriam-Webster dictionary, but did not match the pronunciation listed in the reference. I replaced it with the two US pronunciations listed in the Oxford English Dictionary. --Stybn (talk) 12:43, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * This discussion makes it evident that the subject is encyclopedic -- and the under-informed NYT article makes it clear that a Wikipedia paragraph would be helpful. And as it turns out, once upon a time there was such a thing -- deleted, who knows why. A rough version of it pasted in below. Do with it what y'all will.150.243.14.39 (talk) 16:01, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Pasted in the URL for the NYT article, and here's the link for the scholarly treatment, already cited but not at all summarized in the article This is the definitive treatment of the question, and it pretty well does away with claims that the usages are easily divided along lines of geography, urban/rural, education, historically "correct," "what the indians said." It's not even geographically or chronologically stable, having at one time been definable in relation to proximity to St. Louis, at another KC; Route 66 has been seen as an isolgloss (N/S) as has Hwy 63 (E/W). It's now a matter of perceived sociolinguistic affiliation, and usage depends on how one perceives the group with a particular usage, and whether one wants to identify with that group. The NYT article identifies it as politically fraught, and that's accurate. I can affirm that both presidential campaigns made inquiries before their Missouri swings in 2004 & 2008. 150.243.14.39 (talk) 16:19, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

I've recreated a paragraph on the pronuncation, citing both the Lance article and the Times piece. Ylee (talk) 23:37, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Southern Missouri
I noticed there are pages for Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana, but no page for Southern Missouri. I find this odd, since the southern third of Missouri is culturally and linguistically more Southern, while the northern two-thirds is more culturally and linguistically Midwestern. Is there anyone who would like to work on this article with me? – Confession0791 talk 09:34, 16 October 2012 (UTC)


 * We currently have the Ozarks and the Bootheel - or does your Southern Missouri mean something else? Vsmith (talk) 10:56, 16 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Those articles only have a limited amount of info about the history, culture and linguistics of southern Missouri. Should we just expand those articles, and create Southern Missouri as a disambiguation? – Confession0791 talk 16:32, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Longitude of western border
Hi — Google Maps indicates that the ramrod straight state line running from Kansas City to the Mason-Dixon Line is at approximately 94 degrees West, 61 minutes. The article states the longitude is more than a full degree west of that. I'm wondering if this can be verified before I change it. Thanks. Tvbarn (talk) 02:02, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Where in the article does it give the longitude for the straight portion of the border? The only one I'm seeing is the one in the infobox, which I believe is talking about the state's furthest extent to the west - probably the northwest corner, not the straight portion. Alexius  Horatius  02:42, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Famous Missourians section
The recently added (15 May 2013) Famous Missourians section is rather redundant with List of people from Missouri. Seems any not already on that list article should be moved there and the section replaced by a see here type note. Vsmith (talk) 11:44, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * That sounds like a good idea to me, Vsmith (talk). I tried looking at the list of famous Missourians page and it looked like H. Richard Niebuhr, a significant theologian and and brother to Reinhold Niebuhr (already on the list) was the only one missing from the List of people from Missouri, but I might have missed another name, too. So, other eyes should also check. Taram (talk) 21:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Cut the Famous Missourians list and referred readers to the List of people form Missouri page after section heading. Also, placed list below for safekeeping in case it is sought in the future:

These are Missourians whose names have spread well beyond the midwestern region of the US.


 * Maya Angelou (born 1928), author and poet
 * Robert Altman (1925–2006), film director
 * Ed Asner (born 1929), Emmy Award-winning actor
 * Scott Bakula (born 1954), actor
 * Noah Beery (1882–1946), actor
 * Wallace Beery (1885–1949), actor
 * Yogi Berra (born 1925), catcher and manager in Major League Baseball
 * Chuck Berry (born 1926), rock musician
 * Linda Blair (born 1959), actress
 * Henry W. Bloch (born 1922), co-founder of H&R Block
 * Richard Bloch (1926–2004), co-founder of H&R Block
 * Omar Bradley (1893–1981), World War II general
 * Adolphus Busch (1839–1913) Founder of Anheuser-Busch
 * Norbert Leo Butz (born 1967), actor
 * Harry Caray (1914–1998), baseball broadcaster
 * Calamity Jane (c. 1852–1903), Indian fighter and frontierswoman
 * Dale Carnegie (1888–1955), motivational speaker
 * Don Cheadle (born 1964), actor
 * Joan Crawford (1905–1977), Oscar-winning actress
 * Walter Cronkite (1916–2009), television journalist
 * Walt Disney (1901–1966), film producer, director
 * Timothy M. Dolan (born 1950), Cardinal and Archbishop of the Roman Catholic Church
 * Thomas Eagleton (1929–2007), U.S. Senator from Missouri
 * T. S. Eliot (1888–1965), poet, dramatist and literary critic
 * Eugene Field (1850–1895), writer and poet
 * Bob Ford, outlaw
 * Ulysses S. Grant, President of the United States (1869–1877)
 * Jean Harlow (1911–1937), actress
 * Robert A. Heinlein (1907–1988), science fiction author
 * Al Hirschfeld (1903–2003) Caricaturist and cartoonist
 * Edwin Hubble (1889–1953), astronomer
 * Langston Hughes (1902–1967), Poet, novelist and playwright
 * Frank James (1843-1915), outlaw
 * Jesse James (1847–1882), outlaw


 * Scott Joplin (1867–1917), ragtime musician and composer
 * Ferlin Husky (1925–2011), Member of the Country Music Hall of Fame
 * Steve McQueen (1930–1980), actor
 * Helmut Richard Niebuhr (1894 – 1962), author and theologian
 * Reinhold Niebuhr (1892–1971), author, theologian, political commentator
 * Timothy Omundson (born 1969), actor
 * J. C. Penney (1875–1971), businessman and entrepreneur
 * Marlin Perkins (1905–1986), zoologist and host of Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom
 * John J. Pershing (1860–1948), soldier, General of the Armies
 * Phineas the yellow Labrador Retriever, Dog from Salem, Missouri condemned to euthanasia after it was reported he bit a child but who became the focus of international protests
 * Stone Phillips (born 1954), TV journalist and host of Dateline NBC
 * Brad Pitt (born 1963), actor
 * William Powell (1892–1984), actor
 * Vincent Price (1911–1993), actor
 * Albert Pujols (born 1980), MLB first baseman with the Los Angeles Angels
 * Joseph Pulitzer (1847–1911), journalist
 * James Earl Ray (1928–1998), assassin
 * Ginger Rogers (1911–1995), actress and dancer
 * Charles Marion Russell (1864–1926), artist
 * Dred Scott, slave and litigant in the U.S. Supreme Court Dred Scott Decision
 * Belle Starr, (1848–1889), female outlaw
 * Payne Stewart (1957–1999), golfer
 * Bess Truman, US First Lady and philanthopist
 * Harry S Truman (1884–1972), President of the United States
 * Margaret Truman, author
 * Mark Twain (real name Samuel Clemens, 1835–1910), humorist, writer and lecturer
 * Dick Van Dyke (born 1925), actor
 * Jerry Van Dyke (born 1931), actor, coach
 * Porter Wagoner (1927–2007), Country Music Hall of Famer
 * Rusty Wallace (born 1956), NASCAR driver
 * Mort Walker (born 1923), cartoonist
 * Laura Ingalls Wilder (1867–1957), author of the Little House book series
 * Tennessee Williams (1911–1983), playwright
 * Cole Younger (1844-1916), outlaw

Taram (talk) 02:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

date format
This 2008-DEC-05 edit established the ddefault date format for accessdates per MOS:DATEUNIFY & WP:STRONGNAT & WP:DATERET. Changing the format without gaining a new consensus is not working co-operativley--JimWae (talk) 20:57, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Etymology and Pronunciation
The state is named for the Missouri River, which was named after the Siouan-language tribe. They were called the ouemessourita (wimihsoorita ), meaning "those who have dugout canoes", by the Miami-Illinois language speakers. The Illini were the first natives encountered by Europeans in the region and they adopted the name of the Missouri from them. Bob Dyer's tribute song, "River of the Big Canoes" is based on that etymology.

The pronunciation of the final syllable of "Missouri" is a matter of some controversy, with a clear majority insisting on a relatively tense vowel (as in "meet"), while a minority prefers a lax vowel ("mitt" or "mutt"). The most thorough study of the question was done by dialectologist Donald Max Lance From a linguistic point of view, there is no correct pronunciation, but rather, there are simply patterns of variation, diachronic as well as synchronic, according to such divisions as geography, age, education, and/or rural vs. urban location.

Missouri is NOT the only [state] whose name is pronounced differently even just among its present-day natives." What about New York, Virginia and Georgia, at least (with or without the "r" in all these cases)? Kostaki mou (talk) 23:03, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Wildlife lists
The Wildlife section consists of a number of lists with very little supporting prose. Seems the lists could be moved to a Wildlife of Missouri list or List of Missouri flora and fauna. Or maybe better as separate lists(?). Vsmith (talk) 00:26, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Surely this is a racist statement!
There seems to be some inference being put which implies that German people are alcoholics! Here's the quotation: With a large German immigrant population and the development of a brewing industry, Missouri always has had among the most permissive alcohol laws in the United States. I would be interested to know the connection between the ethnicity of the population and the development of the brewing industry. Francis Hannaway (talk) 14:54, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Townships
As fas as local government is concerned, what kind of power/authority/competencies do Missouri townships have? Do they exist even when a community incorporates? There is a page listing all Missouri townships, but nothing seems to be mentioned of them here, and the township page gives no insight into anything about them. --Criticalthinker (talk) 04:15, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Townships / Minor Civil Divisions have no notability. Even the locals don't even know they exist. Municipalities, or even CDP's are what's recognizable by 99% of the locals. — Confession0791 talk 06:14, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The locals, at least in rural Missouri, do know they exist. On voting day the township residents go to their designated polling places (often a rural church building) to vote. County government is (or was historically) organized around the township concept. I will agree that most big city residents likely haven't a clue 'bout this. Vsmith (talk) 14:05, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Again, what are the powers of township officials? Do townships exist over all areas of the state even if an area of a county is completely urbanized and incorporated? --Criticalthinker (talk) 01:21, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * See Civil township Vsmith (talk) 02:38, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I think you are mistaken. I am from Michigan, whose entirety is convered by civil townships, some of them even special.  So, I get the idea of townships.  What I'm asking is how organized is this form of government in Missouri?  I'm just a bit surprised that they aren't covered in the "counties" subsection on the page, here, given that they are the most basic level of administrative division in the state.  I'm just interested in how townships work in Missouri after I recently saw some elected official from Ferguson Township on television.  I was originally under the impression that the township must be coterminous with the city, but later found out it includes adjacent municipalities, but that was all I was able to find out as the township has no website.  Here in Michigan, townships are local governments on the same level as incorporated municipalities so that when cities incorporate and annex land, the township they were in ceases to exists.  It seems Missouri townships are more similar to Indiana's. --Criticalthinker (talk) 08:34, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, see Rules for Missouri Townships for possible answers. The map on page one seems to indicate the Ferguson area is not covered as having an active township form of government. Vsmith (talk) 21:52, 15 March 2015 (UTC)