Talk:Mobico Group

Headquarters
The Group HQ is in London, and the Coach operations HQ is in Birmingham, shouldn't London be put as HQ? 79.67.87.129 (talk)


 * This particular point is misleading on both the Group article and the Coaches article - they both need to be made much clearer IMHO. --78.32.143.113 (talk) 09:07, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Move
I have put a requested move for National Express. See Talk:National Express. Simply south (talk) 00:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Status of the National Express page
A debate prompted by the 2007/8 rebranding had produced a requested move. The move above did not attract any discussion, and has resulted in a move anyway. This has resulted in: The move is now relisted (19 Feb) MickMacNee (talk) 18:15, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This page is unchanged as the NX group page
 * National Express is now a redirect to this page
 * National Express Coaches is now the true title of the UK express coach co. formerly under the National Express title.

The issue as I see it is, where should National Express now point to? I think the moved National Express Coaches can remain as the main article for UK coaches, as there is sufficient blurring now between the coach division and other UK companies (once rebranded). However, I think National Express should redirect to National Express Coaches, not the group page, because: The disambig text at the top of National Express Coaches can be the place where people looking for the other UK companies can be directed to the group page.) (Cosmen operated always the same with his Autobuses Luarca SA (A small fisher town, Luarca, -famous for their hake-), it was always bought but he was the new main shareholder, so National Express is in theory the group head, with another important office in Madrid) --188.127.190.42 (talk) 23:17, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The coach division website is actually branded National Express Coach (not coaches)
 * The actual coaches appear to be staying as National Express, see website and
 * The other UK companies being branded National Express all appear to be getting straplines that are applied to the vehicles
 * The NX Group also runs Eurolines and other overseas operations, none of which will apparently use the National Express name or brand.

The above is my main proposal, as an aside, there could be a db page just listing the group, coach and other NX branded UK operations, although without any unrelated uses of the term National Express (on WP as yet), it would appear that is overkill per naming policies. MickMacNee (talk) 18:24, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * A better pic showing the UK sub-branding for non coach operations, note the prominent definer, West Midlands MickMacNee (talk) 18:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I am also concerned that this logo [] appears to be a user made combination, extrapolated from the website. MickMacNee (talk) 18:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

S South is right. Calling an article "National Express" is now confusing- do you mean the coaches, the East Coast rail or East Anglia rail? Good move! Btline (talk) 19:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

The image in question above is fine. I moved the "coaches" part under the "National Express" to save room in infoboxes. Apart from that it is unchanged and does not mis-represent the company. Btline (talk) 19:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The fact you re-arranged it is what I was getting at. If you want to take it literally, it appears only one entity will have vehicles branded National Express with no qualifier. WP has a policy regarding common usage of names. The reason that NXG is applying the name to other UK companies is because of the recognition the name gets, created by the association with the original (and continuing) coach operation called National Express. MickMacNee (talk) 19:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

National Express have officially re-branded to "National Express Coach." See website. Yes- they will probably keep the "Coach" bit off their coaches because: 1. people already know that it is a coach service due to the past. 2. A coach does not need to have "Coach" written on it (unlike a train does need "East Coast" on it etc.). I very much expect that timetables will have "coach" on them.

As for the logo, if necessary, the logo could be split in two, uploaded separately and both logos out on the infobox. This, however, would be a waste of time and not change a thng. National Express move the positioning of the two sections around a lot anyway (see NXEC discuss) so this is fine. it includes the whole brand image, fits the infobox, and does not misinterpret the brand. Btline (talk) 20:08, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree. As per this page on the group website, the coach operator is legally National Express Limited, and uses just National Express as a logo without the qualifier Coach. This is in contrast with the logo and legal name of gner as National Express East Coast . Coach does not stand up in both use in public sight or legally. MickMacNee (talk) 20:14, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the brand is clear from the logo at the top of the website- NX Coach. Again, they are less in a rush to fully rebrand the coaches as they have been known as NX for years. Btline (talk) 20:41, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No, they are not going to add Coach to the coaches, unless you have information otherwise. The vehicle livery, legal identity and common knowledge uses all pass WP:NAME. MickMacNee (talk) 21:10, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Everything else is fine, but I would have to agree with MickMacNee that National Express should redirect to National Express Coaches, with a disambiguation note. National Express has been the name of the coaches for decades, as had National Express Group the parent company's name. The coaches are not being rebranded with "coach", I saw one in the new livery with "national express" in massive letters. As MickMacNee says, it is everything else that is getting a strapline. Whoever said that the "coach" will be kept with the "national express" name is wrong, as shown here. The logo is distinctly by itself, in full view at the top, all it says is "Coach Timetable" below it. This is in contrast to the East Coast rail timetable, which has the national express name at the bottom. -- Arriva436 (talk) 20:47, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

But the timetable still has "Coach" on it. It is also better for Wiki to make it "NX Coaches" as this makes the encyclopaedia much clearer and easier for people. Most people wanting to find out about the group will type in "National Express." Redirecting them to a "coach" page will not be helpful- and will not truly represent the company in its entirety. Finally, the logo on the website for NX Coaches makes it clear that NX want to do the same with their website (as I said before- NX are not going to splash "Coach" on their coaches- the fact that a coach is coach is self explanatory! :-) Btline (talk) 23:59, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Your assertion that users want the group when they request National Express is pure original research, there are clear procedures for proving the common usage of a term, but it seriously should not need to be done here, especially as the group has hardly even begun re-branding. National Express also mis-represents the foreign operations that are not being re-branded. Finally, it is yoiu that is asserting that NX has a NXcoach logo, it does not, the logo is your creation, what is on their website is two separate images, for very obvious reasons. MickMacNee (talk) 01:54, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Plus, it is not a single logo, you have created the logo by putting the two separate images together. MickMacNee (talk) 01:54, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

How about as a different compromise, the National Express redirect becomes a disambiguation page? Simply south (talk) 00:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm going to seek more opinions from some policy minded people. MickMacNee (talk) 01:54, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Request for comment
Above is the status of the discussion prior to Rfc. Basically, National Express Group has decided to rebrand all UK companies (there are foreign ones to be unnaffected) to the National Express name, built on the good faith of the historical name National Express, which is/was a coach company from which the group expanded. There previously existed articles on the group National Express Group and the coach operation National Express. As the rebranding started, it was suggested, and as unnopposed, done, to move National Express to National Express Coaches, and redirect National Express to National Express Group. This redirect is now in dispute, as it appears, unlike all the other companies, there is not going to be a large qualifier in the name of the coach operation, it is remaining as National Express, although obviously the National Express name is now going to get more exposure from the other companies. So, how to apply common usage as to where the National Express article name points to? Base it on the prior common usage and arguably continuing usage as the coach company, or the future use as a UK group, or a disambiguation page listing all NEG operations (about 10-15). It is asserted by Btline that National Express Coach (not coaches) is a sub-brand, the evidence for this is contested. Comments... MickMacNee (talk) 02:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * c2c is operated by National Express, theres no National Express in front of c2c.Likelife (talk) 15:02, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

'''< EDIT

I fail to see the confusion. 'National Express' (the national coach network) is part of the 'National Express Group'. Other (UK) parts of the 'National Express Group' are simply being rebranded into the NX umbrella, purely as a corporate excercise.

An example, 'Travel West Midlands' is being rebranded as 'National Express West Midlands. However, it will retain it's legal title of 'West Midlands Travel'.

So, it's simple. You need a 'hub' page for the 'National Express group', with leads to each of the constituents.

Dave Francis. http://nationalexpresscoaches.fotopic.net

END >''' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.51.244 (talk) 17:16, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Right. Because of the NX rebrand, there are a lot of franchises/logos etc. that say "National Express." We, on Wikipedia, should be aiming to reduce that confusion. Therefore, a page called "National Express" should not redirect to the coaches page- ''as there are many things now entitled "national express ......" . Therefore, to keep this encyclopaedia easy to use, "National Express" should redirect either to National Express Group, or should be a disam page. Btline (talk) 18:20, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * UK Transport wiki has a disambig page. Me Myself  and Iwith the UK Transport Wiki 15:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Stanstedxpresslogo.gif
The image Image:Stanstedxpresslogo.gif is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --08:00, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Problem fixed. Arriva436talk/contribs 08:43, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Eurolines
The srticle says that National Express aquired Eurolines, but the linked article on Eurolines says "Rather than being a single company, Eurolines is a network of co-operating bus companies from all over Europe", which is true, and therefore "Eurolines" cannot be owned be somebody. It must have something else (perhaps a British Company participating in the Eurolines network) which was aquired by National Express. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.211.197.133 (talk) 09:59, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 8 December 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Whilst this could've been relisted, I believe that it ought be treated like a technical request. There is a clear consensus below, and in the relevant guidelines and policies, that the 'group' should not be part of the title here. In as much as National Express has always redirected here, we cannot say that the 'group' serves as a form of WP:NATURAL disambiguation from the coach concern, or the various railway concerns, &c. I recognise that there is a question over whether this article is truly the primary topic for the name 'National Express', but I would suggest that that is a different discussion. If an editor wishes to demonstrate that this article is not the primary topic, and that some other article is, he or she ought open a new requested move presenting evidence to that point. For now, to align this title with our guidelines and policies, the article shall be moved to the more WP:CONCISE title. RGloucester — ☎ 18:29, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

National Express Group → National Express – Per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NCCORP. "Group" is not an integral part of the company name. The logo states "National Express" not "National Express Group". SST flyer  09:03, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Support. Easily WP:COMMONNAME just like Thorpe Park rather than Thorpe Park Resort. Zarcadia (talk) 17:03, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Second choice there should be an article at National Express, either this article or National Express Coaches with the other at its present, naturally disambiguated, title. Personally I think National Express Coaches is the primary topic, and a quick look at the first two pages of a google search for "National Express" -Wikipedia suggests that to me too, but putting this article at the base title is my second choice. Thryduulf (talk) 23:04, 15 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Rebrand to Mobico
How should we handle the rebrand? At the time of writing, the article has been moved from National Express to Mobico Group, but the issue is everyone knows it as National Express and NX is still the brand name. I think this is a very clear-cut case of WP:COMMONAME because most people just type 'National Express' into the search bar. Maybe have a seperate article for brand and parent company, or just have one National Express article? But the way it is currently being handled is in my opinion the worst, especially because its logo hasn't changed, it's only the parent company that's rebranded!!! Sausagea1000 (talk) 18:07, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I am OK with it as it is. I suspect the company will grow the new brand and I don't favour an additional article for the old brand. Dormskirk (talk) 18:36, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, Mobico says [|here] that they will keep using NX as a brand, so unless they change their mind and change to Mobico, this is definitely WP:COMMONAME. Sausagea1000 (talk) 20:55, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * This is a clear case of WP:COMMONAME. Reliable sources overwhelmingly use National Express, and that is what our readers will be looking for. Under the principle of least astonishment and given that none of the valid criteria for using the official name applies here, I will move the article back to National Express. SilkTork (talk) 13:50, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

I have delayed restoring the name to National Express because I noted that there is another article on Wikipedia called National Express Coaches, and have been considering if "National Express Coaches" is different enough to the company National Express / Mobico to justify a separate article. I don't think there is an entity called "National Express Coaches", but I can see that the intention is to write an article on the UK coaches operation of National Express / Mobico Group. We have articles on other aspects of the National Express / Mobico Group, such as Alsa (bus company), Durham School Services, and Stock Transportation, so that makes sense. SilkTork (talk) 04:32, 7 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Wanted to revive this as I've still not seen the company referred to as anything but National Express; it seems Mobico is simply a corporate name and not a trade name. Perhaps having the title as NatEx, with the lead showing "Mobico Group, commonly known as National Express" would suit? Couruu (talk) 14:49, 12 July 2024 (UTC)