Talk:Modern Love (2006 film)

Alex Frayne

 * This discussion was originally on my talk page. See also User_talk:Hullaballoo_Wolfowitz and Talk:Alex Frayne - jc37 14:28, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi Jc37, I found your username on WP:ASSIST and noted that you are experienced with dealing with notability of subjects. I came across the article Alex Frayne, an Australian director with a few small films to his name. I initially tagged him for notability, but have since decided that a single reliable source is enough to establish notability. However, the sub-pages for his films are also unreferenced. With the exception of Modern Love (film), they probably wouldn't survive AfD. The major contributor for all pages is User:Zencrooner, who is likely to be the article subject (edits deal exclusively with Frayne's films and other biographical details). Not that that matters - the pages are actually quite well written and coded for the most part, so I'd prefer to keep as much as possible. Could you make comment at Talk:Alex Frayne? Cheers, --Yeti Hunter (talk) 04:26, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I took a look at the contributions, and at the articles in question.
 * Though at first, they look fairly standard for such articles, there are some concerning issues with them.
 * The first is "according to who". WP:WEASEL comes immediately to mind concerning what some might call weasel words. "some say", or "it has been said", etc.
 * Also, since it would indeed seem that the person involved is creating/editing the article (see WP:BLPEDIT and Autobiography), seeming bias in the words has appeared as well. ("X is actually intended" or "X has led to Y happening") All of which are "in my opinion" (in the author's opinion).
 * So yes, these could probably be easily deleted due to lack of references.
 * However, the critics sections imply that the press at least commented on the films. So it might be worth looking to see if such references exist. (Which I attempted to do...)
 * And there would be several options from here, depending on the references involved.
 * Though I will admit, for some initial searches I've done, this looks much like a WP:CSD probability, due to self promotion (WP:SPAM). this suggests that this is currently a local indie film director who hasn't "made" it yet who is being shown at local indie film festivals.
 * And this is identical to the entry in the article Modern Love (film).
 * And this is one of many sites I've found which use the exact same picture.
 * So I think that this likely fails the WP:DUCK test, and this is likely spam/self promotion. - jc37 09:09, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * All true, but there is the Variety Magazine review (http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117933065.html?categoryid=31&cs=1). But there is only that, as far as RS goes. By WP:CREATIVE, Modern Love would have to be the subject of "significant" critical comment in order to be presumed notable. After all, the review is about Modern Love, not Alex Frayne.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 09:43, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree with JC. — Rlevse • Talk  • 17:42, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Is there a list page for indie films out of Australia? If so, the relevant content for Modern Love (film) could be merged there.
 * I think we may need to revert the self-promo edits though. - jc37 19:12, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Australian films of 2007 would seem to be one such list page. - jc37 19:30, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I placed a WP:CSD G-11 template on each page, except Modern Love (film). If there is anything worth saving from the other pages which might be relevant to that, feel free to add to Modern Love before they are deleted. - jc37 19:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not even sure about Modern Love, and by extension, Frayne. Even with the glowing review from Variety Mag, it's still a far cry from satisfying WP:FILMNOT. And Frayne doesn't come close to WP:ARTIST. To settle the matter it'd probably be an idea to take the whole lot to AfD, and see what happens. Also, perhaps this discussion should be moved to Talk:Alex Frayne.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 10:32, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Though I moved it to Talk:Modern Love (film) since it has the variety reference. - jc37 14:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC)