Talk:Moirai/Archive 1

Roman version?
I was just wondering if I was correct in assuming that the triumverate of female entities that control fate was exported from the Hellenic context to the Roman (like so many other aspects of their mythology). I'm not particularly well versed in either, but I do recall "The Furies" later known as "The Kindly Ones" sharing many similar characteristics. They are portrayed as being more involved in shaping events and exacting revenge, but the similarities struck me.

If anyone has info on what if any connection there is between the Greek Moirae and Roman Furies it would be a much appreciated.
 * Mention of the Fates in Latin literature would make a start here. --Wetman 00:02, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * No, you're thinking of the Erinyes. Opoudjis 05:41, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

About Ragnarök Online's Manhwa
The ones depicted in Ragnarok Online's Manhwa are not the Moirae but the Nornir: Skurd, Verdandi and Urd (the sames which are the base for Skuld, Belldandy and Urd form Aa Megamisma)


 * I have made a new article Fates in market-driven culture that will accomodate all such usages. --Wetman 05:35, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I brought that article back into this main article because I didn't think it justified its own little article - could we discuss?--TurabianNights 16:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Though in all honesty, do we really need a laundry list of every time the fates are mentioned in a comic or video game? Couldn't we just pick a few notable examples?--TurabianNights 03:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The connection is less than tenuous. This kind of pre-adolescent cruft builds up like dust mice under the sofa.--Wetman 22:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Kers
"Their many siblings included 'The Keres' who were a group of female death spirits." Perfectly silly "relationship", and a misunderstanding of Ker to boot. Jane Ellen Harrison, Prolegomena to the Study of Greek Religion would straighten out these misperceptions. --Wetman 22:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Why the selfe linking?
It seams that lower down in the artical(sp?) the link Moirae goes right back to the top of the page, that seems relly stupid. Is there a reason for this?Blue loonie 01:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Which version of Homer?
This article cites various lines in the Iliad and Odyssey. However, there is no reference to a translation of these works in the References section. All translations have different breaking of line numbers (e.g. the Odyssey quote in Fagles' translation is lines 232-233). The translation should be cited. --Fbv65 e del — t — c // 18:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Hecate, Triple Goddess, and the Moirae
This article says, "Hecate, the crone aspect of the Triple Goddess was the spinner." I haven't found any evidence to support this, and it seems very unlikely to me (but I have no background in Greek mythology). Is it true, or should that text be deleted? JameySharp 04:39, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Thre are many sets of Three, and the crone aspect of the Great Goddess is not one of the Fates, as your hunch rightly suggested. --Wetman 04:48, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, wasn't there a creature that did work for the Moira(three sisters of fate)? Someone I know asked me about this and its been so long since I did research on greek mythology that I didn't remember if there was or wasn't. She said the creature had three names but she couldn't remember what it may have been called. I am more familiar with the myths of Lamia, Medusa, Cyclops, Posiedon, and Cerberus. I know of others but I am not as familiar whith them. Any help on finding out about this would be greatly appreciated and Thank you in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.151.107 (talk) 03:48, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Three fates are blind or not?
could someone add that in because a lot of these types are —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.186.195.16 (talk) 06:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments
"Clotho, Lachesis and Atropos appear in the Stephen King novel Insomnia. In this, they are personified as dimimutive, bald, male doctors. Aside from their direct role in this story, King also describes their place in the mythology of the Dark Tower series. " Of course everything appears in a Stephen King novel, doesn't it? or in a handheld computer game or the name of a garage band somewhere. A quote from the novel would strengthen this very slender connection, and show how King uses the Moirae. Does it genuinely shed light on the Moirae that their names are applied to little bald doctors? Wetman 09:18, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * In this case the three are named and are principal players in the plot. There is nothing slender about the connection:

We don't have names, not the way Short-Timers (that is, ordinary mortals bound to the material world) do - but you may call us after the fates in the story this man (Ralph, the main character, having already conjectured their existence to his friend Lois) ''has already told you. That these names originally belonged to women means little to us, since we are creatures with no sexual dimension. I will be Clotho, although I spin no thread, and my colleague and old friend will be Lachesis, although he shakes no rods and has never thrown the coins.'' Chapter Seventeen, part 3, pg 438 (Hodder and Staughton paperback).

Seems like that could be a copyvio though. mat_x 10:25, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Apropos, if you think a mention of popular fiction in the article would lower its tone, then I can just add the paragraph to Insomnia, with a link to Moirae. mat_x

If you have nothing further to add to this discussion, I'll return my text to the article until we debate it further. Best, mat_x 21:11, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Quoting a brief passage in order to show how the author works, or to illuminate something beyond the passage itself, is not a copyright violation. Every high school graduate should know this. So, if the Stephen King reference throws light upon the Moirae, or shows how they are interpreted by the mainstream of modern culture&mdash; or even by a cult group&mdash; or demonstrates anything at all beyond King's fiction, give the reader a brief excursus. But the King reference just by itself, is what the Romans call inane. 21:38, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)Wetman

Thanks for the prompt reply. Problem one is that not every country has a system isomorphic to what you refer to as high school, and so it is wrong to assume all have been through this system. More importantly (so, problem two), I don't think a high school student's paper on X would be distributed under the GNU Free Documentation License, as Wikipedia is. See Copyrights. My comment about copyright violation was in the hope you have more experience in these matters than I. With the above in mind, quoting the passage I gave may still be OK, but it doesn't seem like an issue for instant dismissal.

My original thought about the edit was that it might be interesting to show a contemporary use / anthropomorphization of the idea of the Fates. If you feel such a modification should be accompanied by the elaboration you describe, then I respect your view and I'll leave Moirae as it is. mat_x 09:15, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

What you are asking for is not possible in English. The way Steven King is using English to dumb down the minds of the morons in this world is inevitable in any world in this universe. It is just the point that Steven does it the best. And your problem with the Roman word inane, is, just that, a problem. Anything lacking significance means that it is not understood by some, but well understood by others.

Isomorphic, wow. Is that a word to what you openly admit? Be Good (talk) 08:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Could someone who knows please add the English pronunciation in the opening paragraph? Thanks. --Yumegusa (talk) 09:04, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Title
Does the form "Moirae" actually exist? Shouldn't the article be Moirai or Moerae? The Cardiff Chestnut (talk) 02:07, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed, Moirae can't be justified. We often Latinize, but in this case the Latinization Moera (plural Moerae) is extremely rare, so we should go for a direct transliteration from the Greek: singular Moira, plural Moirai. It will need changing all through the text ... And rew D alby  15:52, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Moirai. I think transliteration of the Greek is better unless the Latin is really common. Cnscaevola (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the input, folks. I've banished Moirae from the text and am waiting for the redirect to be cleared out for the move. —  the cardiff chestnut  &#124; talk  —  19:21, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I've now done this move. Paul August &#9742; 21:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Amusing misspelling
"dessert" for "desert" 99.166.141.86 (talk) 16:42, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Butcher is "Classic Literature"? Seriously?
Or, for that matter, "Captain Blood"? These are classics? Should this be "Contemporary References", perhaps? Or merely deleted, as superficial nods with no critical import?

On the other hand, Joseph Conrad's allusion to the Fates in Heart of Darkness does have critical import, since he is alluding to the power of modern corporations to manipulate and control human lives. See here, for example: http://www.studymode.com/essays/Heart-Of-Darkness-The-Fates-1603681.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.248.252 (talk) 20:51, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Page move request
I suggest that this article be moved to Moirae. The article name could then be used as an overarching article covering both Moirae, Parcae, Laimas, Norns and other fate goddesses.--Berig 09:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think moving all those to "The Fates" would be a better idea. That's a more inclusive term.  Then redirect everything there.Andy Christ (talk) 20:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest not. Article is long enough already and linked to the appropriate avatars Brobof (talk) 10:09, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Merge of Parcae and Moirai

 * Oppose Merge: There is between 800 and 1000 of years of time between them, one set was male, the other female. I read somewhere or saw on Horizon program here in the UK, that competing empires sometimes subsume other defeated civilizations to conquer them wholly, and the Roman Empire was know for that having done that many time, but you would have to show some link. Possiibly. scope_creep 10:51, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

It seems. paragraph from top.
Weak statement.

It IS. Change the statement.

you will NOT suffer a which(doubt) to life(to conflagrate into a burning inferno).

Those that make their mistakes will have to live with their own bootstraps, but NOT, those that have not. (You don´t like movie references? A pity, after all you have created them, in excuse, and that does double your fault) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.88.238.143 (talk) 01:18, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

From above.
Third paragraph.

´Man in black.´ ´There allways is a battlecruiser, death star, or imminent hollocaustic disaster. The only way A human, or any other, can live their lives, is if they are NOT aware of that matter´

IE: South America, Africa, was overal oblivious to World War II. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.88.238.143 (talk) 01:21, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

You think Africa was not affected by World War II? How do you see the North African Campaign (1940-1943)? Dimadick (talk) 19:05, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

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