Talk:Mongol Nation

The biker gang?
Hmmmm, I was expecting information about the biker gang refered to in this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Under-Alone-Undercover-Infiltrated-Motorcycle/dp/0812969529/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7966733-7594345?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194275507&sr=8-1

198.6.46.11 15:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * So instead, you actually learned something about history. Congrats. --Latebird 16:02, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yay history!! (no sarcasm, I'm being sincere) 198.6.46.11 (talk) 17:35, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, the page I was looking for is here in case anyone else has the same problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongols_%28motorcycle_club%29 198.6.46.11 (talk) 17:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

What is this about
I don't get what the article is about. The topic seems like a mixture of Mongol Empire and Mongols, maybe closer to the latter. What's next? Are we going to see separate articles for Mongol people, Mongolians, Mongolian state, Mongolian statehood, Mongol statehood .... ? Yaan 18:38, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It may be phrased confusingly (and in part self-contradictory), but it really talks about a different time period than Mongol Empire. The same is not true for the terms you compare it to. Of course, it might still be possible to merge and redirect it there. --Latebird 06:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm currently doing quite a bit of Mongol-related research, and haven't found any reference to this term in the index of any of the following books:
 * The Mongols, 2nd ed.
 * Mongolia: A Country Study
 * Encyclopedia of Mongolia and the Mongol Empire
 * The Mongol Warlords
 * The History of the Mongol Conquests
 * The Empire of the Steppes
 * The Mongols and the West
 * If there's some other source that uses the term, I'm open to reviewing it, but my recommendation is to just turn the page into a redirect. --Elonka 06:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * On a second reading, it seems to be about the time between the founding of a unified state (=1206) and the begin of their campaigns against non-Mongol peoples (=1207, according to the timeline in the Mongol empire article). Is that really notable? What sources do we have for that period?
 * Another question, what would be the correct Mongolian translation of nation in this context? The asuult.net online dictionary offers uls oron (~state), ard tumen (~people) and undesten (probably the best translation for the concept of nation, but maybe - in this meaning - a modern term). Yaan 09:50, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * On a second thought, may be the topic of the article would become notable if we call it Mongol unification or something like that. Yaan 09:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * On a second thought, may be the topic of the article would become notable if we call it Mongol unification or something like that. Yaan 09:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * On a second thought, may be the topic of the article would become notable if we call it Mongol unification or something like that. Yaan 09:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yaan, could you please tell me where you are even seeing the term "Mongol Nation"? I haven't been able to find it in my own sources. --Elonka 16:20, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I guess I might find it in Bawden's Modern History of Mongolia. Of course this book covers a much later period of time, beginning with the 17th century. Yaan 17:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Britannica uses the term in the page title (didn't check the article). --Latebird 18:33, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The term is also implicitely used in Grigor of Akners History of the Nation of Archers, or at least in the English translation of the work. But still I feel to see the difference to Mongol empire. I also feel to see how the Mongols back then really formed a nation rather than ... something else. Did the Romans form a nation? Yaan 14:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That Britannica uses the term, is indeed confirmation that the term exists; however, I'm not seeing justification for it to be a separate topic. It might be worth making something like a Wiktionary definition that "Mongol Nation" refers to the loose confederation of tribes that existed during the time of Genghis Khan, before the Empire started its major expansion. Or, we could maybe add a couple sentences to that effect in the Mongol Empire article as a subsection, and then have "Mongol Nation" be a deep redirect to Mongol Empire. But I don't believe there's enough here for a separate article. --Elonka 17:57, 7 November 2007 (UTC)