Talk:Monoposto

Al freír de los huevos lo verá Cervantes
The word may not receive so much use about cars in the English language as it did until perhaps 50 years ago. Certainly at the time of writing single-seater has been viewed 108 times in the last 30 days, monoposto in exactly the same period 323 times and in the preceding 30 days 386 times. It seems to me the readers are looking for monoposto and not single-seater, to merely redirect is to over-do rationalisation.

It does seem to me that the originator of "open wheel car" got those background links wrong but that person may have wished to establish their view as having priority. I leave further learned disputation for others but there is also a phrase made popular by Cervantes, 'tilting at windmills'. Eddaido (talk) 20:33, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Right. You have stated your preference, and I have acted thereon.  Two articles on exactly the same topic will not do. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 22:27, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Propose soft redirect to Wiktionary entry
With practically no scope for expansion of this article beyond a simple definition, I propose a soft redirect to the entry in Wiktionary. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 11:26, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Which brings to my mind two thoughts:


 * 1 Why so anxious to destroy these 'articles'?
 * 2. Sometimes the very simplest concepts are the very hardest to communicate. Eddaido (talk) 22:58, 10 February 2012 (UTC)


 * By the quote marks you put around 'articles' I realize that even you know there isn't enough content to justify them as articles, and there isn't likely to be much, if any, documentary evidence to show notability of the concept. This is almost as bad as the article on the ADFM (Assistant Deputy Financial Manager) position in the Indian Railway.


 * I suppose that if I put up a PROD on these articles, you will remove it. I shall consider AfD, then. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 13:42, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hey Sam, not a good weekend over your way? The word monoposto is Italian. The examples shown (in case anyone imagines it is limited to automobiles) are accordingly Italian. The W196 which was a most famously interesting vehicle was called the Mercedes monoposto and made famous by Juan Manuel Fangio (born in Argentina, South Jamaica) —see how inclusive and pluralistic I can be — of new immigrants from Italy. I thought the mobility scooter was your own little joke. I am having a very full day today and will try to get back within 24 hours for more explanation. Peace my friend, best regards, Eddaido (talk) 21:53, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I take this to mean that the reason you had two separate articles on this flimsy concept was that one was for vehicles that accommodated only the operator of the vehicle and the other was for Italian vehicles that accommodated only the operator of the vehicle. It occurs to me that I was right the first time, and that the only reason why more people were looking for "monoposto" than for "single-seater" is that, for English speakers (and this is Wikipedia in English), the term "single-seater" is self-explanatory while "monoposto" is not, so more people would look to find out what it means.  Therefore, the redirect should actually have been the other way around, with the base being the more familiar English term, and the redirect being from the foreign term.


 * There is still no evidence, however, that this term is notable beyond a definition. What essays or papers or journal articles  or books exist about the general concept of single-seater vehicles?  Beyond open-wheel racing, to which these articles initially redirected, what notability do these terms have?


 * Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 02:49, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Single-seater racing cars
I found the 'article' single seater by accident in early December last and discovering it was swept into open-wheel car decided to point up the absurdity by adding an image of a single seater aircraft where I could have added, as previously mentioned and equally validly, a porch swing or rocking-chair or bigger. Subsequently the 'article' single-seater turned up giving me equal concern. Then I found the name monoposto seemed (only seemed) to have been swiped for a club. So I expanded the monoposto article adding a Lambretta to attract attention ( which turned out to be yours). I've just now removed it and as evidence you will now see the little gallery is balanced if not exactly symmetrical.

A monoposto as used outside Italy is not just an open-wheel car. It happens the name open-wheel car is entirely new to me but then I'm a long way from anywhere and so there is unavoidable delay. . . Here's a link to a recent attempt to use monoposto as a model name for a Japanese car. I think single seater and single-seater articles should go and certainly should not be linked to open-wheel car if they (sadly) remain - there are other things of importance in our world as well as cars.

I'd strongly support a move of Single-seater cars to Single-seater racing cars. Have a look at what I've done, it is not an exhaustive catalogue of links. And yes, I do believe very strongly that monoposto the article should stay and be allowed to grow. Eddaido (talk) 23:37, 10 February 2012 (UTC)


 * What is a monoposto? A single-seat vehicle. What does "monoposto" mean in English? "One seat". Therefore, the English term is "single-seater" or "single-seat vehicle". I call Orwell's fifth rule on this one: "Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent". Orwell's sixth rule does not apply, as the term "single-seater" is not "outright barbarous."


 * By the way, the Italians seem to disagree with both of us. The Italian article Monoposto begins with a sentence which translates to: "The [monoposto] is an automobile whose cockpit is realized [configured?] to accommodate only the pilot." They seem to have limited the term to automobile use. I assume there has been no discussion about it because there is no discussion page for the article.


 * As for the "single-seater cars" article, why do you think there needs to be a list of single-seater formulae? How does a list of formulae become an article on single-seater cars?  A single seat car is nothing more or less than a car with a single seat, and can be adequately covered in "single-seater". As far as an article goes, as opposed to a list of links, the "single-seater" article covers single-seat racing cars more adequately than your "single-seater cars" article does.


 * You keep saying that "monoposto" does not mean the same thing as "open-wheel car", but you never state what the difference is. Have you read the open-wheel car article?  What is your objection to it, and to having it cover single seat racing cars?


 * To sum up: "Single-seater" is a more general term, an English term, and it covers the content of both "monoposto" and "single-seater cars". If any one of these articles should stay, it should be that one.


 * Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 17:22, 11 February 2012 (UTC)


 * By the way, that Miata Monoposto car that you linked to is called that because it is (drumroll, please) a single-seat car. It is no more intended to be a model name than "convertible" is intended to be a model name. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 17:39, 11 February 2012 (UTC)