Talk:Monte Albán

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Claude Winters ism
IT IS POINTLESS TO CONTINUE DENYING THE AFRO-OLMECS WERE BLACK AFRICANS

The Olmecs included two races. A prehistoric African Negro race found in West Africa/Sahara who spoke Manding-Shi and the Mongoloid 'Indian' race found in North America/Alaska.

The Afro-Olmec civilization was founded by Emperor 'Meci' about 5 thousand years ago. African ancient books note the date to about 3113 BC, when Meci sailed from West Africa in eight ships. (See "A History of the African-Olmecs: Black Civilizations of America from Prehistoric Times to the Present Era," published by www.AuthorHouse.com also see "Susu Economics" pub by www.AuthorHouse.com and "A History of Education Book II," pub. by www.Xlibris.com  http://community.webtv.net/pabarton

It is rather shameful that some historians and writers have shamelessly tried to deny or hide the fact that the Olmecs were African NEGROES and not 'Negritoes' Pygmies or other Blacks living in Asia.

The Olmec language (UNKNOWN TO MOST OF THESE 'EXPERTS' HAVE BEEN DECIPHERED ALREADY) is identical to the ancient and present Mandinga-Shi language of West Africa. The ancient Olmec alphabet in its formative style is identical to the Manding alphabet. The Olmec cosmogony is identical to West African cosmogony. The Olmec use of leapords skin, religious rites, worship and recognition of the thunder/lightening God and such is identical to West African Shango religion. The Olmecs were also among the purest type of Negro IDENTICAL TO AFRICANS FROM THE GHANA/GUINEA/NIGERIA region of today.

However, Olmec civilization is an extention of the Mandinga-Shi and Mandinga-Kush civilization spread from Sudan to Sierraleone and from Sudan to Melanesia/SE Asia.

see http://community.webtv.net/paulnubiaempire http://community.webtv.net/nubianem


 * Sez you.
 * All kidding aside, there are few if any professional archaeologists who would agree with your statements. Moreover, there are a number of inaccuracies in your text.  Just as one example, there is nothing known about the Olmec language, and there is great discussion concerning whether the Olmec 'alphabet' is a true alphabet or, instead, complex iconography.   Madman 15:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * olmec heads cannot be taken as evidence of African heritage. All cultures have images of beauty that they do not fit.  Drawing sand sculptures could be used to say that the Toltecs were Caucasian and the Teotihuacanos were Arabic.  Anthropomorphic sculpture is common throughout mesoamerica.  And the Olmec iconography system is simply picture writing, how can it be related to any african alphabet?  you should be cautious about posting arguments by other authors without stopping to analyze them yourself. Also, try to be a little more careful about posting the word negro on a public forum.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.50.197.49 (talk) 21:09, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Aerial view
I took the aerial photo from my plane as we departed the Oaxaca airport for Mexico City. The flight path of the airport puts you right next to it. Bobak 18:00, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Photos
I moved every photo of the article (including additional ones - gallery) to commons. I kept all the original information. In several cases I had rename the files in order to give more clarity. See Category:Monte Albán on Commons

Thanks. --GengisKanhg (my talk) 20:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Zapotec toponym
(NB: portions of the below discussion are copied from User:CJLL Wright's talk pg, for wider reference)

Gidday dan - once again, some great work by you in improving the Monte Albán article. A quick question- would you be able to confirm, or know of any sources for, the statement in that article which claims the site's name in some Zapotecan dialect is/was Danipaguache, and if so whether or not the glossed meaning given is ok? It's not that I really doubt it, but when I had a look at it last time I was unable to track down sources to confirm. I presume also that it's at least a post-conquest attribution, ie the contemporary name(s) are unconfirmed..? --cjllw | TALK 02:31, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * hey Cjllw - i actually don't know any sources that state that - in fact, I don't believe I'ver heard that name before I took a look at the MA page. I would agree with you on it being a colonial period attribution... actually, now that I think about it, perhaps there might be a reference to it in The Cloud People, that Flannery and Marcus edited tome from 1983 or so. I don't have the volume, so I can't check (when I was looking to buy it, it was always over $90).  I just checked the other various books I have concerning the Zapotec, which aren't very many, and can't seem to find it.  If anything, its probably an ethnographic source.  I know very little about Oaxacan ethnography, so I wouldn't even know what the prime places to check would be.


 * Anwyay, thanks for the compliment concerning my work! - I've been trying to go through the various Start and Stub class Meso articles and add to them, hopefully getting them to bump up a level. Both Monte Alban and Zapotec, at least I think, are important enough topics that they should be worked on.  And my plight on the Mesoamerica article continues - I've gotten the chrono section into decent shape, began working on the subsistence section, and am slowly working my way down.  I'm not really looking foward the latter sectiosn of the article, as they'll need some major reorganization. By the way, congrads on the admin-ship!  Anywho, the fight contines!-- Oaxaca dan 02:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

OK. Well, not to worry- I might ask Infrogmation about the etymological source, I think he may have been the one to add it some time ago. Keep up the great work on the Mesoamerica article, thanks to the efforts of you and a few others around here, recently there's been a significant improvement in our coverage- much more to do, of course! Take care, --cjllw | TALK  00:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I took a look in Arthur Miller's Painted tombs of Oaxaca (1995) and on pages 33,34 he has a discussion of the derivation of a zapotec name for Monte Alban. Wilfredo Cruz (1982) argues Danibaan "Sacred Mountain" was the zapotec name, with Monte Alban being a hispanicization of that.  Gordon Whittaker (1980) rejects that because his term lacks sufficient time depth, 'baa' according to Whittaker means "tomb or place of rest". Miller admits he doesn't understand Wittaker's objections to Cruz's derivation.  I could find nothing in Flannery and Marcus's Cloud People to support the 'Danipaguache reading.  Marcus (cited in Miller) found a glyph she thinks may be a "place" glyph for Monte Alban with a cognate for the nahuatl name for the hill on which its located (nahuatl name is ocelotepec - hill of jaguar) and glyph is in Lise stela and glossed by Marcus as "Hill of 1 Jaguar" (article is in Cloud People).Rsheptak 00:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow- thanks Rsheptak, that's some mighty fine and quick research! With that info we should be able to expand a little more on it in the article. I'll also copy this discussion to the article's talk page, for wider reference and record. Thanks again.--cjllw | TALK  01:22, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't recall what books and websites I had in front of me when I created the starter stub for the article. One may have been "The Complete Visitor's Guide to Mesoamerican Ruins" by Joyce Kelly. For what its worth, Kelly's book says: "An earlier Aztec name was Ocelotepec, Nahuatl for "Hill of the Jaguar". An even earlier Mixtec name was Yucu-cui. A still earlier Zapotec name may have been Dainipaguache or Danipaan, Zapotec for "Sacred Mountain".  The book doesn't give a specific source for this.  -- Infrogmation 08:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

References for Teotihuacan-Monte Alban interaction
I'll add these here if someone wants to permute them into the proper 'cite' form (which I don't know).


 * Paddock, John. (1983). The Oaxaca Barrio at Teotihuacan. in Flannery, Kent and Joyce Marcus, eds. The Cloud People. Academic Press. pp. 170-175.
 * Marcus, Joyce (1983). Teotihuacan Visitors on Monte Alban Monuments and Murals. in Flannery, Kent and Joyce Marcus, eds. The Cloud People.  Academic Press. pp. 175-181. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rsheptak (talk • contribs) 01:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC).


 * Hey Rsheptak, thanks of the citations. I had a hunch they might be in that volume.  I can throw them in the text as academic citations, but our man Cjll knows the citation templates quite well.  Whenever I've tried using them, and the in-line referencing section, I usually end up erasing the entire article.  So I'll defer to those who know.  Oaxaca dan 02:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

"Pigmy tunnels"
I looked up this page to find recent info abut the Pigmy tunnels and was surprised to find nothing.

My source states that they were first discovered in 1933 and explored the following year. They were lined with stone and measured 20 inches high by 25 inches wide. The first tunnel was a bit more than 320 feet long with smaller side passages, containing two skeletons, and ended at the edge of the northern terrace. Two more filled tunnels were found and a third, more complex, was found to the east of tomb seven. Their use as either a drainage system or escape tunnels has supposedly been ruled out.

More info would be appreciated.--Auric (talk) 01:49, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

the Zapotec name of Danibaan is a wrong name
Archeologist have discovered in recent time that the original name of Monte Albán in zapotec was "Dani Beedxe" that means Jaguar Mountain and not "Danibaan" that means nothing. Kosiyopii (talk) 11:37, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060219014636/http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeology/sites/meso_america/montealban.html to http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeology/sites/meso_america/montealban.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061106104816/http://www.cnca.gob.mx/cnca/inah/zonarq/montealb.html to http://www.cnca.gob.mx/cnca/inah/zonarq/montealb.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060827183115/http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/research/archaeo_wiki.htm to http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/research/archaeo_wiki.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051228234536/http://www.sacred-destinations.com/mexico/oaxaca-monte-alban.htm to http://www.sacred-destinations.com/mexico/oaxaca-monte-alban.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071001045233/http://homepage.ntlworld.com/keir.clarke/alban.htm to http://homepage.ntlworld.com/keir.clarke/alban.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929111600/http://www.fieldmuseum.org/ancientamericas/rulers_9.asp to http://www.fieldmuseum.org/ancientamericas/rulers_9.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111002125959/http://www.photoblog.com/dcfroburg/2009/04/23/pirmides-de-monte-albn.html to http://www.photoblog.com/dcfroburg/2009/04/23/pirmides-de-monte-albn.html

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