Talk:Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway

Past tense
Why has everything in this article been changed to the past tense? The company is still in business and is still operating in Maine. Being in the middle of bankruptcy proceedings does not mean the company has ceased operations, and being "for sale" does not mean that it has been sold. I've made changes to the opening paragraph; please change the rest of the article back to the way it was before all the past tense changes were made. 64.185.131.107 (talk) 17:46, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * MMA is indeed dead as of October 1, the Canadian licence revocation date. The State of Maine has approached every in-state freight railroad to find a new operator. The company's assets are for sale. The line is severed in two at Lac-Mégantic, Quebec and only a skeleton staff remains on each side of the break under Chapter 11/CCAA bankruptcy protection to continue rail service for the few local factories not yet stranded until governments on both sides can find a new operator to take over the line. At this point, the state is all but begging Mr. Irving to take over what's left just to keep some sort of rail service available, although the line may never be profitable with oil-by-rail now more of a liability than it's worth. There is no plan for a "New MMA" to emerge from bankruptcy the way a "New GM" or "New Chrysler" was salvaged from wreckage of the Detroit Three; if the only remaining asset of value is the poorly-maintained track through Farnham and Brownville, and that's for sale, it's over. Maine will ensure that its wood and paper get to market, but the MMA brand is bankrupt and dead. K7L (talk) 18:00, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It's not October 1 yet, according to my calendar. "Will be dead" is very different from "is dead." One could say that my grandmother "will be dead" in the very near future, and one would be correct, but that doesn't mean we're going to publish her obituary while she's still playing checkers with her roommate at the nursing home. Sigh. This is why I gave up on Wikipedia a long time ago. 64.185.131.107 (talk) 18:32, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * MMA isn't playing checkers in a nursing home, it is severed in half and on life-support with no vital signs, awaiting transplant of its primary organs into other patients. It's now just a question of determining which patients are willing and able to receive the transplant. K7L (talk) 18:41, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * MMA is STILL in business they are just going through bankruptcy right now and even though their Canadian operations has ceased the U.S. operations are unaffected and as far as I am aware still licensed to operate in the United States. 96.252.177.127 (talk) 14:17, 18 September 2013 (UTC)


 * No one is looking to continue MMA as MMA post-Chapter 11. The plan is to find another railroad or railway to buy the assets. The line is severed at Lac-Mégantic and portions on the Canadian side have been shut down by Transport Canada (now, not Oct 1) due to unsafe conditions. The intro as it stood was quite clear both about the bankruptcy and about whatever skeleton operation was in place. It is no longer possible to travel this line end-to-end. There might be enough of a skeleton left to get paper from a factory in Millinocket to Portland (Plan 'B' had the state contact every freight railroad in Maine to find an alternate operator if the Chapter 11 operation stops entirely) but that's about it. K7L (talk) 14:39, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

While it is true that MM&A is in bankruptcy, the railroad is presently in operation. Contrary to the reports above, it is allowed to operate in Canada, at least until February of next year (Ref: http://trn.trains.com/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2013/10/Montreal%20Maine%20%20Atlantic%20operate%20until%20Feb%201.aspx) and is doing so, and further the company is in the process of restoring the Lac-Mégantic link (http://trn.trains.com/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2013/10/Rail%20line%20through%20Lac%20M%C3%A9gantic%20could%20reopen%20by%20Thanksgiving.aspx)

I would suggest fixing the article as-is. It may be all but certain that an asset sale will occur, leaving the corporate entity to deal with compensating victims of the Lac Magentic affair before being wound up, but it hasn't happened yet. The Sun hasn't exploded into a Red Giant and then slowly withered away either, which is why the article on the Sun doesn't describe it in the past tense despite the fact the Sun's end is absolutely 100% certain. This article shouldn't be written in the past tense either. 98.254.202.225 (talk) 18:10, 4 November 2013 (UTC)


 * The assets will be sold off in mid-December. Sections have been shut down already due to safety problems. The claim of service "through Lac-Mégantic by Thanksgiving" is nonsense as Thanksgiving has already come and gone in Lac-Mégantic... unless by "thanksgiving" you mean October 2014? The line runs through downtown, the downtown is no-go for at least a year due to the decontamination efforts. K7L (talk) 18:38, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanksgiving is the headline in Trains Magazine, an American publication, so it would stand to reason it's refering to the American holiday. The actual text of the article says: "The Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway may begin operating through Lac-Mégantic by the end of November, the Bangor Daily News reports. The railroad has also started to rehire workers let go after the July 6 derailment and fire destroyed much of the city's downtown."

So, no, we're not talking about next year, and we're not talking about October. And regardless, we are talking about a railroad that is currently operational, even if closure is certain. You're jumping the gun by claiming an operating railroad company no longer exists. 98.254.202.225 (talk) 18:59, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

The full Trains Magazine article includes more sources, but here's the Bangor Daily News Article they appear to be referencing: http://bangordailynews.com/2013/10/14/business/lac-megantic-rail-line-might-reopen-next-month-railway-company-rehiring-workers-fired-after-crash/?ref=search 98.254.202.225 (talk) 19:02, 4 November 2013 (UTC)


 * October 14 was Thanksgiving, so the BDN article would have come out at almost the same time as the news hit the fan that the line from Lennoxville-Mégantic was in such poor condition as to be unusable for passenger traffic: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/M%C3%A9gantic+rail+line+remains+closed/9032885/story.html A week later, an attempt was reportedly in progress to reconnect Tafisa.ca, a particleboard factory which is the largest Méganticois employer (Tafisa is currently trucking its board to the CN line in Drummondville): http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/work-begins-on-new-train-tracks-after-lac-megantic-derailment-disaster-1.1507353
 * That leaves a few points unclear: Were the claims to BDN about "reopening the line" made before the failed Transport Canada inspection which was revealed on the Thanksgiving (.ca) weekend? Was the attempt to connect Tafisa to just the eastbound line (.me.us) using track beside the sports centre, as reconnecting to Montréal would go through the worst damaged area? Furthermore, who is paying for this track? http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/10/20131023-114748.html MM&A was a railway but is now bankrupt and up for auction Dec 13th: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/lac-m%C3%A9gantic-railway-mm-a-could-be-sold-by-december-1.1928480
 * My suspicion is that, if anything is opened, it will be a fragment from the Tafisa factory east and not the whole line... and then only as damage control because the line severed in both directions is doing further economic harm to Méganticois industry. Don't claim that the whole line will be open anytime this year if sources published after the October 14 BDN piece are finding key obstacles preventing this from happening. K7L (talk) 05:00, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Reminder: Dying ! dead
Wikipedia is not about what you want the world to be. And while it can, under certain circumstances, be allowable to make predictions, you can never describe the future in the present tense.

MM&A is still alive. Just. The business is still in control of the railroad, it's still running trains. It's managed by bankruptcy trustees and its closure and transfer of assets to another entity is imminent.

We even know the LIKELY date of the transfer: March 31st.

But it's not dead yet. And won't be until (most likely) March 31st. Like I just said.

So will everyone PLEASE be careful about what you write? This isn't a competition for who gets to find out it's dead first. When you jump in and say "Isitideadisitdead oooh boy isitdead isitdead? itsdead! I winiwiniwin!!" and it's not yet, you undermine Wikipedia because anyone reading the article who actually needs to know is going to be fed false information. The fact is if I need something, today, transferred over that line, I need to contact the people at MMARail.com. If I contact Fortress Investment Group, I'm going to get laughed at.

Please. Curb your enthusiasm. And remember, FWIW: MM&A is bankrupt because of the deaths of 47 people. Your enthusiasm in that context is, perhaps, a little misplaced?

Thank you,

--98.254.202.225 (talk) 21:03, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

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Court
And how about an update on what the result was of the engineer and supervisor and everyone else remotely involved (except the local firemen who shut the locomotive off, of course) being dragged into court? Were they convicted? Fined? Found not guilty? Is the case still dragging on? As far as I can see they didn't do anything that wasn't standard practice around here, and aside from failing to set enough hand brakes (which wouldn't have been a problem if over-enthused and under-experienced local volunteer firemen hadn't shut the engine - and the brakes - off), so I am curious whether they were actually sacrificed as political scapegoats, or if it was just a gesture to appease the public, and nothing ever came of it.

64.222.125.125 (talk) 19:21, 2 April 2021 (UTC)