Talk:Montreal Screwjob

minor detail - exact time ahead of schedule?
From the Wikipedia article: "Survivor Series went off the air four minutes ahead of schedule..."

The linked source for that claim, however, says: "The pay per view with ten minutes left in satellite time quickly went off the air..."

So was it four minutes or ten? I don't know anything about wrestling, so I don't know if it's an error of if I'm missing something. JudgeDeadd (talk) 21:25, 3 November 2013 (UTC)


 * The correct source for that is the Wrestling Observer Newsletter (reference 32 on this page) which wrote "The show abruptly went off the air about four minutes early."
 * The two different numbers don't contradict one another. WWF would book a certain period of satellite time for pay-per-view events (usually around 2hrs 50mins in this era), but would always schedule to finish the show at least a few minutes before this period ended to avoid the risk of overrunning and viewers not seeing the end.
 * On this occasion the main event finished earlier than WWF had planned on their own schedule. That's because people not in the know about the screwjob plan (most notably Bret Hart) were expecting the match to go on for several minutes after the point where they actually ended the match.
 * So in short: The WWF planned to go off air with about six minutes of satellite time left in their timeslot. They actually went off air four minutes earlier than planned, meaning 10 minutes left of satellite time. 82.7.196.43 (talk) 21:35, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Discrepancies
I know because of WP:OR that I can't add this to the discrepancies section, but this is what I can garner from what has been said in the article.

I think we can dismiss Russo in the first part. He has a really bad habit of putting himself over as some sort of booking genius. When it comes to shooting with the truth I prefer to believe Jim Cornette. I'm sure many examples of Russo's behaviour could be found, but getting it into this section is another matter. Additionally, it could well be that both Trips and Brisco had a hand in it - HHH with the original idea, and Brisco with the full arrangement.

The second part is easily explained. Earl already knew when Shawn told him of the final spot and didn't tell him that.

The third part is missing a crucial part, and that was the meeting between Vince and Bret as depicted in Wrestling with Shadows where Bret explained his preferred ending. This had to be after the hotel meeting, so Vince was giving Bret one last chance to provide a way for him to drop the title. So the meeting on the Saturday night was not final. That would have been Patterson's limit on the knowledge (and JR's). He would have known about the idea, but NOT that it was actually going ahead. Vince didn't know that until he spoke to Bret and didn't get what he wanted. Remember also that Brisco wasn't at the hotel meeting, so the carrying out of the screwjob and how to do it also wasn't known at the hotel meeting.SCREWJOB SUCKS

Any thoughts on any possible way to make any changes to reflect this where we can and staying away from a WP:OR violation? 101.160.137.185 (talk) 01:50, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Vandal user
User:*Treker is determined to revert my constructive edits for absolutely no reason, vandalising the article by restoring unsupported nonsense as part of a clear anti-IP, WP:OWN agenda. His "work" involves:


 * Reverting to a completely unsupported claim that Michaels and McMahon got "angry responses" anywhere but Canada (actually there's nothing even for Canada, but I let that go).
 * Restoring the following unsupported nonsense: "Subsequent WWF shows saw large numbers of fans loudly chanting... holding up pro-Hart signs and booing Michaels, McMahon and others". The given cite supports nothing of the sort.
 * Re-adding "It is undoubtedly the most controversial match in the history of the WWF" (I changed "undoubtedly" to "perhaps", which was being kind), which is supported by a primary WWE source!
 * Re-adding that Hart was "able to reconcile to a small degree with McMahon". Since there was no cite to mention, I removed the opinionated "small".
 * Restoring mention of Hart's "ongoing storyline with McMahon", which ended in early 2010! 2A02:C7F:8E43:2F00:89B6:9948:76C2:BD4 (talk) 19:02, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not a vandal. I already apologized for overreacting on your talk page for reacting to drastically.&#42;Trekker (talk) 19:03, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I made my original post here at 18:59 UTC. The apology came at 19:00, and I didn't get around to reading it until 19:02, after making fixes to my post. Seems the issue is resolved. 2A02:C7F:8E43:2F00:89B6:9948:76C2:BD4 (talk) 19:07, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Like I said. I'm sorry. I made a really bad judgement, I hope everything will go fine from now on. I can be way too aggressive sometimes.&#42;Trekker (talk) 19:10, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

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"Inside the Montreal Screw Job: Who Really Got Screwed in the WWE?" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Inside the Montreal Screw Job: Who Really Got Screwed in the WWE?. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:04, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

"Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart: WWE's Greatest Rivalries" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart: WWE&. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:10, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Infobox
I cannot see any reason not include the infobox. The screwjob took place as the ending of the Survivor Series Match between Michaels and Hart. The inclusion of the infobox summarises the screwjob itself and gives the basics of the match itself. The match is important and summarising the match itself is important. Information is in a clear and easy to digest format and gives a basic and easy to access summary of the incident. The article deals well with the background and the aftermath but not having the infobox and just having a floating image is unhelpful and not really in line with how most articles on events and incidents and sporting events are covered. infoboxes are commonplace in most if not the vast majority of articles, excluding one here seems to be retrograde and make the article more difficult to the uninitiated and those without prior knowledge of the incident. Failing to have it makes the article more difficult to fully comprehend as well. Sparkle1 (talk) 20:21, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This article is not about a match, it's nothing but misleading to include it. It adds nothing of to the page as far as valuable information goes. All the infobox does is give 90% INUNIVERSE that just distracts from the real world event that is actually notable in this case. Shawn or Bret's intro music or who "booked" it (which is highly disputed anyway) is not important and is honestly almost insulting to focus on when this is about an actual workplace dispute that ended up being quite traumatic for both men. I created the infobox and I know what it's supposed to be used for, and it's not cases like the screwjob.★Trekker (talk) 06:17, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 100% agreed. Extraneous minutiae about the match, rather than about the incident. No consensus for it. Get rid of it. Cloudbearer (talk) 08:04, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

This is not an in-depth discussion and there are no actual reasons given for the not wanting other than what boils down to it not being liked. . The infobox that is used on Mankind v the Undertaker is fine and detracts nothing. This infobox detracts nothing. The infobox gives context to the layperson about the wider wrestling status and this is useful information. Not everyone who reads this will be an expert and lay people will not be familiar with the context here. Also putting the match information next to the stuff talking about the match is pretty standard. Sparkle1 (talk) 23:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I've given a perfectly good reason for it actually.★Trekker (talk) 23:33, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * No you have not. Sparkle1 (talk) 23:35, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Also good for you creating the infobox in question. You do not own it and do not own or control its uses. See WP:OWN. Sparkle1 (talk) 23:46, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Never claimed I did. And I'm perfectly aware of WP:OWN, I've been on Wikipedia for many years. Nothing you've said change the fact that:
 * 1) Article is not about a match, it's about an incident of workplace dispute
 * 2) The infobox adds only WP:INUNIVERSE information, this using it distracts from more relevant things that should be covered when a reader first views the page
 * It's simply inappropriate to use this infobox in this article. All it would do is take up space with information that is not relevant.★Trekker (talk) 23:57, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Comparing Mankind vs. The Undertaker to the Montreal Screwjob is a glaring false equivalence. One article is about a match; the other is about an incident that occurred within a match. You will notice that the Indiana State Fair stage collapse article doesn't have an infobox with a setlist or band personnel, because it's not about the concert, but instead about an incident that occurred at the concert.

The infobox is valuable elsewhere, but here it's trash. Burn it. Kill it. Get rid of it. Cloudbearer (talk) 15:51, 11 April 2021 (UTC)