Talk:Mooroolbark, Victoria

Style
Can someone please explain to the Aussie rules football club advertisers that just because a football club exists, it doesn't warrant inclusion, you must show a history that is relevant to the area of Mooroolbark and this history must be considered eventful. Just because there's a football club means nothing. The soccer club is included because there's a historical record that has nation wide relevance and has an historical impact originating from Mooroolbark. Should a business advertise just because it exists only to close 12 months later? I would include the Aussie rules club if they can show historical relevance! This should be discussed or a block placed on this contributor unless they can show a history beyond just local knowledge.

- Topoftheday   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Topoftheday (talk • contribs) 06:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Already responded to at the bottom of the page, and on this user's Talk page. This should be moved, but I suspect Topoftheday may not see it if I do. Let's have no more discussion up here. HiLo48 (talk) 06:31, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Is there any way we can edit down this article so that it's easier to read and not full of such superfluous information (like, for example, links to local churches - is this really necessary?).

I'm happy to take on the task myself, being a Mooroolbark resident. But if anyone has any objections to me removing or modifying certain content, please let me know asap!

- Benjysponder

Ojection & Response:

There has been much work go into this and for you to edit at your discretion, we feel, does not reflect the views of the community - Churches, schools, transport, business and people are what make up the Mooroolbark Township. All information provided here is factual. We are of the view that all information is good information, there have been a number of CONTRIBUTORS to this Wikipedia article, we don't think it is reasonable to detract from the work put in as this article has been researched carefully for it's validity and integrity. For example, if a person objects to restaurants being mentioned, should we edit this out? Or if someone has an objection to a particular history, should that be removed also? It would be pointless removing facts about Mooroolbark in any way shape or form unless it is clearly there to single out or offend an individual. If the information is verifiably correct - leave it. Consider this an objection, from a number of individuals who are also residents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.239.195.178 (talk • contribs)


 * In order that close to a million people around the world can edit without all getting in each other's way, Wikipedia is managed by policy, and I would strongly suggest reading it. Also the article "What Wikipedia is not". This is not a criticism at all, but more a hope that we can all work together in improving this article.


 * One point I would make is that no-one owns articles on Wikipedia. The edit window, if you scroll down, clearly says "If you don't want your material to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it." There is a legal reason for this - once you (or I, or anyone) place(s) information on this site, it suddenly becomes public property under the GFDL, which stands for "GNU Free Documentation License" (click the link at the bottom of any page to read it). The reason some statements may be removed is that they express a point of view, constitute original research, or cannot be verified. Also, some may be about non-notable information - keep it relevant, and avoid stuff that is very likely to get out of date, eg point lists of every shop in a shopping centre, etc. If you provide reliable sources for any information added, and keep the language in such a way that any reasonable, right-minded person of any race, class, creed or geographical location would agree with you, then there's no problems. Takes a while to get right - I was new to all this at one stage as well - some of my old edits are painful to read now! Orderinchaos78 00:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * 220.239.195.178, may I ask who you refer to when you say "we feel...", "we think...", "we are of the view..." etc? If you are editing on behalf of an organisation or group it would be fair to declare this.
 * Benjysponder, you don't need to ask for permission to edit the article. Please feel free to make any changes you feel will improve the article. Sarah Ewart 14:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Disputed edits
The following paragraphs have been moved here for discussion. Hesperian 03:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Mooroolbark is a family town with great Community Spirit, and number of social and recreational activities on offer, including Shopping, sporting and recreation reserves, horse riding, bike riding, and a Miniature Railway close by. Volunteer run community activities are also provided.
 * This reads as advertising. The first phrase is opinion. The rest merits inclusion if verifiable. Hesperian 03:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Any town with families is a family town. Enough with the POV language. SauliH 05:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The Miniature Railway if we can verify it would definitely be worth including. Orderinchaos78 06:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * as per Hesperian--Melburnian 12:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Whoever wrote that obviously confused Wikipedia for a tourist brochure. Ditch it! User:Benjysponder 16.39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Anyone here live in Mooroolbark? BTW - The Miniature Railway is run on the third Sunday of the month, so may be worth including! Topoftheday
 * Yeah I don't think the miniature railway is terribly controversial - a quick search of Google turns up mentions of it on a range of sites, and not just local ones. I'll do an archive search at the weekend to see if one of the major papers has written about it so we can re-include. Orderinchaos78 15:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * ''There is a 24 hour Police presence in Mooroolbark. The Mooroolbark Police station is located only 1 minute drive 700 metres from the Mooroolbark train station and town centre.
 * Warrants inclusion in my opinion. Hesperian 03:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * include SauliH 05:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * include Orderinchaos78 06:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * as per Melway, include--Melburnian 12:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * include Topoftheday


 * Consensus is to include, although might reword a bit (1 minute drive at what speed?) Orderinchaos78 15:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * If we say it's about 700 metres from the Train Station/Town Centre, that would also cover pedestrians, bicycles etc going *to* the police station--Melburnian 04:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes 700 meters seems realistic to me.
 * Any problems with the proposed edit above? If not we'll reinclude it. Orderinchaos78 12:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * On reflection I thought that the "24 hour police presence" might sound a bit like something akin to martial law has been imposed. Here's a proposed alternative for comment: Mooroolbark has a 24-hour police station. It is located at the corner of Hull and Cambridge Roads ("Five Ways"), 700 metres from the Mooroolbark train station and town centre.--Melburnian 23:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Done! Topoftheday 14:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * ''The current approximate population of Mooroolbark is 18,998, which is 0.56% of the total population of Melbourne. The postcode for Mooroolbark is 3138. The main religion observed in the area is Christian accounting for some 11,911 persons - AUSTRALIAN BUREAU OF STATISTICS 2001 Census.
 * Warrants inclusion in my opinion; citation style needs work. Hesperian 03:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * "Melbourne" is a contentious entity - what is Melbourne? - but the rest is fine aside from citation Orderinchaos78 06:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * A bit of a random collection of data. Population is now in the infobox (there does appear to be a discrepany in the figures on the ABS web site, but we shouldn't have two different figures). Other figures are random demographic data which don't really demonstrate anything as stand alone figures. Suggest remove--Melburnian 12:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * ''Some people drive from surrounding suburbs to park at Mooroolbark. Boarding at Mooroolbark train station provides you with the confidence that you will find a seat on the train, making your journey into Melbourne CBD a comfortable and relaxing one. That coupled with the fact that you can return from work and enjoy a relatively pollution free environment make Mooroolbark appealing to the diverse mix of professionals, families and Retirees.
 * Unverifiable advertising. Delete. Hesperian 03:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * * This makes me gag. Chop it. SauliH 05:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Totally. Can it. Orderinchaos78 06:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds likes an advertorial, agree with removal--Melburnian 12:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * More unnecessary advertising. Like I said, Wikipedia is not a tourist brochure!!! User:Benjysponder 16.41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, here a possible alternative - http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/air/aq4kids/station_details.asp?siteid=10136

Not travel related but how about the MOOROOLBARK Air Monitoring Station. There's even a pic there! That would make a firm topic about air quality. Is Mooroolbark related and does has EPA link. :-) Topoftheday 08:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC)Topoftheday


 * ''... an alternative to private education
 * I think this is preferable to "a low cost alternative". The latter implies that people only choose government school because they are cheaper. Hesperian 03:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * like this alternative. SauliH 05:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed with rephrasing Orderinchaos78 06:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Ditto--Melburnian 12:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * ''There are a number of dedicated volunteers within the Mooroolbark community. Mooroolbark has its own volunteer publication called “LIVING TODAY in Mooroolbark” and is distributed free throughout the Mooroolbark suburb. The volunteers do a fabulous work, they are very much appreciated!
 * Unverifiable opinion. Delete. Hesperian 03:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * * If a volunteer network/publication is truly verifiable, and is notable, then rephrasing this from the promo verbiage of this would be ok in my book. SauliH 05:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Hesperian. My suburb has its own rag too. I'm sure most do. I could probably produce one myself, for that matter. Orderinchaos78 06:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I would just leave the middle sentence, if it's a notable publication.--Melburnian 12:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The Living Today (in Mooroolbark) is well respected by the residents and has the support of the Shire of Yarra Ranges. It goes out free to all Mooroolbark residents, might be worth mentioning? :-) Topoftheday


 * I see four Google references to it and the Shire of Yarra Ranges (and 10 overall) - one of them links to this site and most of the others to a church website (this site suggests said church is in fact the publisher). It appears to be a quarterly magazine. Can't find it on SLV or LibraryLink. Orderinchaos78 15:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * A quick phone call to the community centre will confirm - The magazine is kind of distributed through the Mooroolbark Community Centre; however is published voluntary with the assistance of a church group MCF that uses the Mooroolbark Community Centre regularly and has done so for many years. This church group also uses the Mooroolbark Community Centre and facilitates the “Mooroolbark Township Group” with Traders, Lions club, Rotary, Youth, local Government & State members, RMIT DCO/DLO, committee/group members. Additionally, this church group manages the 'Celebrate Mooroolbark' festival (Replacing Red Earth) and runs film nights for the Mooroolbark Community during school holidays. Personally, I think the ‘Living Today in Mooroolbark’ mag could be included unless it is against wiki policy - just seems like it is church focused, but not, (?) but then again it seems most of the events in the Mooroolbark community are facilitated by church groups. So, the knot is tied with the same twine. I guess the people involved just happen to be connected this way.   Anyway, a read through some the articles which confirms no bias either way.  Your thoughts.
 * A presence in the Eastern Regional Libraries catalogue would have established notability, but I can't find it there. By comparison, the Lilydale & Yarra Valley Leader, which has not been mentioned yet, can be found there. --Melburnian 04:49, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Glad to know we're on the same page - I checked the same two things in the same catalogue :) Orderinchaos78 10:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, spoke with the Mag editors today and they will be approaching the Mooroolbark Library with the view to archive/catalogue and place in their articles section. I guess if the Mooroolbark Library gives the OK, it's in. Stay tuned! Topoftheday 08:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)Topoftheday


 * The magazine Living Today (in Mooroolbark) is a significant publication. Worth mentioning I believe. While it is produced by a church organisation, that's not obvious to a casual reader and it does not seems to push the views of that church very much at all. It is distributed to every household in Mooroolbark (except, apparently, those with No Junk Mail signs), on a quarterly basis, and most residents seem to be familiar with it and respect it. Oh, and that church does not run the 'Celebrate Mooroolbark' festival. To their credit, some of its members were involved in establishing the festival, but the organising committee today has many members not from that church. HiLo48 (talk) 00:32, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any other Bus service that you request by Telephone. Your thoughts.
 * I wonder if the Telebus should be included? http://www.invictabus.com.au/telebus.html
 * I've now included a section on bus routes, including the Telebus service--Melburnian 04:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Great! How about a Telephone number to book the bus? If I was using my PDA (wireless) I'd appreciate that info if I needed get to Mooroolbark. Your thoughts...
 * The external links have the telephone numbers, it's best to link to them rather than put them in the article as the numbers are subject to change--Melburnian 07:49, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. See Wikipedia is not a directory - such things are better left to websites or telephone directories. Orderinchaos78 10:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Topoftheday 08:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC)Topoftheday

Wikipedia is not the white pages. Directories, directory entries, TV/Radio Guides, or a resource for conducting business.

Quote: "Brycees Tavern, that features live music (mostly cover bands) three nights a week".

Is this advertising or "conducting business"? There seems to be a bias here? What do people think about removing the name 'Brycees' and just saying Tavern? There is also a wine bar in Mooroolbark. But then again you should include the discount wine shop also I suppose? Then there's Liquor Land (Coles).... etc. Does anyone here have a connection to the Tavern? Just can't understand why this is featured without mention of many other shops in Mooroolbark. Topoftheday 08:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)Topoftheday


 * I'd agree with you that this section is out of whack. It's enough to say that the suburb contains a tavern - unlikely to change over time - but let's say they close down for repairs, or go to two, or four days per week, or change ownership and/or name... One purpose and aim of being encyclopaedic is also, as far as possible, stability - it's listed as a key criterion for Good and Featured Articles. Another article of which I'm aware claims of its facilities: "Several neighbourhood shopping centres are dotted throughout the suburb, the largest of which are X and Y, each of which also has a tavern offering pub meals and live entertainment." Obviously that wording related to that suburb's particular configuration, but you get the idea. Orderinchaos78 09:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Added 'Air Monitoring'.

Topoftheday 09:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Move to edit - Most secondary students in Mooroolbark attend one of two public high schools in Mooroolbark: Mooroolbark College and Pembroke Secondary College.

"Most secondary students in Mooroolbark attend one of two public high schools in Mooroolbark" – Content must be verifiable...

Need to see some serious stats on this as there are a number of private schools either within Mooroolbark or just over the border, namely, Oxley College (Chirnside Park), Lilydale Adventist Academy (Lilydale), Billanook College (Mooroolbark), Mt Lilydale College (Lilydale), Luther College (Croydon), Yarra Valley Grammar School (Croydon), Mt Evelyn Christian School (Mt Evelyn).


 * http://www.oxley.vic.edu.au/index.html
 * http://www.billanook.vic.edu.au/
 * http://www.oxley.vic.edu.au/
 * http://www.mecs.vic.edu.au/
 * http://www.yvg.vic.edu.au/
 * http://web.mtlilydale.melb.catholic.edu.au/index.htm
 * http://www.luther.vic.edu.au/
 * http://www.laa.edu.au/

All of which take students from Mooroolbark!

I'm hard pressed to believe that ‘most’ secondary students in Mooroolbark attend public secondary schools. Especially when the Government Schools are zoned. Further more, the bulk of these Private schools are P-12 (Prep to year 12).

If I’m wrong, educate me. :-)

However, I would like to revisit the earlier articles on this with more Private inclusion unless someone has hard evidence to the contrary.

Topoftheday 00:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Edit:

There are a number of Primary & Secondary Schools within Mooroolbark and surrounds offering a choice between Private and Government education.

Private Schools in the Mooroolbark area include:

Billanook College (Mooroolbark), Yarralinda Private Primary School (Mooroolbark), Saint Peter Julian Eymard Community School (Mooroolbark), Mt Lilydale College (Lilydale), Luther College (Croydon), Yarra Valley Grammar School (Croydon), Mt Evelyn Christian School (Mt Evelyn), Oxley College (Chirnside Park), Lilydale Adventist Academy (Lilydale), Edinburgh Adventist Primary (Lilydale). Most Private Schools offer P-12 education.

Government Schools zoned for Mooroolbark include:

Pembroke Primary School, Rolling Hills Primary, Manchester and Bimbadeen Heights Primary Schools. Mooroolbark College and Pembroke Secondary College.

Topoftheday 01:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Just removed Ten Pin Bowling and replaced with new business - A Gymnasium

Mooroolbark no longer has Ten Pin Bowling :-(

Gym should be good for the area anyway!

Topoftheday 01:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I still think that both local government and private schools should be included, not just the schools in Mooroolbark as there are many students from Mooroolbark attending private schools, can we look at including local schools also? Topoftheday (talk) 08:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Football club
Why does the Football club keep turning up here? There's no historical merit, can this person be blocked?

- Topoftheday —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.77.108.112 (talk) 05:56, 15 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure that blocking someone is the right approach. The editors on this article (including yourself) seem largely unaware of common Wikipedia practices. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, so long as people are willing to learn. It would have been better if all those recent changes had been discussed here rather than just boldly done. But let's discuss it now. Is the local footy club notable enough? Obviously those involved will think so, but then so will the local cricket club, tennis club, swimming club and Scouts. Where do we draw the line? I suspect that the bodies we might ordinarily expect to exist, such as those I've just listed, are not normally notable. The soccer club scores because of its historical place in the National League, but not the others. HiLo48 (talk) 06:12, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I would like to see some notable history, is there a famous person from the footy club or an event that occurred that may have made news headlines, if something like this could be made available then inclusion should be considered. However, I have done hours of research on this and can find nothing. Topoftheday (talk) 07:52, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Schools
User Topoftheday added the following text, which I have now reverted.... _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ''A number of studends also attend schools local Mooroolbark however not in the suburb itself. These include: Oxley College (Chirnside Park), Lilydale Adventist Academy (Lilydale), Mt Lilydale College (Lilydale), Luther College (Croydon), Yarra Valley Grammar School (Croydon), Mt Evelyn Christian School (Mt Evelyn).

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 * http://www.oxley.vic.edu.au/
 * http://www.mecs.vic.edu.au/
 * http://www.yvg.vic.edu.au/
 * http://web.mtlilydale.melb.catholic.edu.au/index.htm
 * http://www.luther.vic.edu.au/
 * http://www.laa.edu.au/''

My concern is twofold. Firstly, it's a bit clumsily written, and those bare urls really need to be dressed up. But that's all fixable. Secondly and more importantly, it's not a complete list. It will inevitably be selective, and therefore somebody's POV. Not sure how to address this. It is informational, but not as accurate as I would like it to be. HiLo48 (talk) 08:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

William Fletcher
Re: William Fletcher http://www.emelbourne.net.au/biogs/EM00340b.htm here's a source Topoftheday (talk) 08:28, 15 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Good. Something useful COULD be added to the article using that. HiLo48 (talk) 08:38, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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More languages
There seems to be a lack of languages that one can switch to, I am not sure if that is an issue on my part or if there is just a lack of languages this has been written in. If there is a lack of languages this has been written in I recommend someone fluent in other languages should translate and add their language. Moo4042 (talk) 17:13, 24 January 2023 (UTC)