Talk:Moose

Predation By Coyotes
I dont have the time right now, however could somebody perhaps add to the Predators section that Coyotes very rarely hunt Moose during Winter? They dont do it frequently and I'd imagine only old/young/ailed individuals, as well in snowy regions are the only times its happened with any kind of frequency likely, but It indeed is possible and has been done before.

here's a citation of where my claim comes from. https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/full/10.1139/cjz-2013-0160 - WL Enthusiast (talk) 20:44, 7 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I don't know. To me, this demonstrates one of the problems with primary sources like scientific studies such as this one, because we have no really good secondary-source interpretations of the data. I read the source, and to clarify, they never actually saw the coyotes kill any moose. They're actually talking about a mix of "Eastern coyotes" and "Coyote/Eastern-wolf hybrids, which they note are a good deal larger than western coyotes that haven't been interbreeding with wolves. They declared it a high probability that the moose hadn't been killed by wolves and just eaten as carrion by the coyotes, mainly due to the kills happening deep within the coyotes' territories, and their research strongly suggests that the territories are well-marked and don't overlap very much. Yet they can't say with 100% certainty and they neglect to mention other possibilities such as bears, poachers, auto collisions, trips and falls, or so many other such things that may inflict life-threatening injury with or without killing the moose right away. Nor do they mention just how a canid like a wolf or coyote actually kills a moose, which generally involves a long chase that can last several days as they tag-team the animal to exhaustion. Such chases can easily cross territory lines without a second thought.


 * That's one of the problems with using primary sources such as new research, which is why we have such strict rules about them in over in the MEDRS articles. Now, don't get me wrong, because it not outside the realm of possibilities. Coyotes have been well-documented harassing moose, but to my knowledge no one has ever documented an observed case of coyotes bringing down a moose as they have with other animals like wolves and even wolverines. I think there is just too much room for doubt and interpretation from this study, and I'd personally feel more comfortable seeing it in a high-quality secondary source instead. Zaereth (talk) 00:07, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Probably “oldest” and not “youngest” bones in Britain?
Probably just a typo but the page is locked 2601:603:4E80:A00:B4B3:1F8C:43BE:407F (talk) 15:47, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * That does seem incorrect however this is what the source says. I verified the source and in context this is relevant. The point being made is about the date of extinction. The most recent time the moose inhabited Britain. There is only verification that it was alive as recently as 3900pb. Probably the oldest are far older. Invasive Spices (talk) 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Polygamous?
When did moose start getting married and have multiple wives? 2603:6000:D700:194D:1892:2DD:C5C9:5691 (talk) 17:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * According to our own article on the subject, "In sociobiology and zoology, researchers use polygamy in a broad sense to mean any form of multiple mating." Beeblebrox (talk) 18:28, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Moose&diff=1130934464&oldid=1129974152 Humorous but hard to understand so I needed a few seconds to understand what you meant. Our lek mating is very different from polygamy. Invasive Spices (talk) 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Aggression section needs serious work
The writing in this section is clumsy and unscientific, but much worse it is dangerous. The author does not understand the use of basic punctuation like commas and semicolons, and it is full of misinformed blanket statements like "more aggressive individuals are ALWAYS darker in color" misconceptions that are not only unscientific and inaccurate, but dangerous to the public. The whole paragraph about aggression needs re-written or deleted. "they attack more people than bears and wolves combined, but usually with only minor consequences." No, not with "minor" consequences. Bull moose in rut are extraordinarily aggressive and dangerous, even compared to large predators. 24.20.168.19 (talk) 04:17, 28 February 2023 (UTC)


 * That's according to the sources. The source for coloring, for example, comes from the book Deer of the World : Their Evolution, Behaviour, and Ecology, by Dr. Valerius Geist. It's a very in depth and exhaustive book by a world-renowned expert on the subject. Not only does he say that the more aggressive individuals are darker in color, but that they are darkest in those areas facing their opponents during the rut, serving as sort of a visual warning to other ungulates that they're not likely to back down. Your other observation is also well-documented and found in the sources. Moose are very dangerous, I agree fully. The most dangerous animal in Alaska, in fact, and I know that from personal experience. (I've been charged, chased, cornered, and on one occasion even had to bail off a cliff and slide down the ice on my butt.) But in terms of raw numbers, there are a lot of moose attacks yet they are rarely fatal or result in serious injury by comparison. They usually don't go looking for a fight unless someone really pisses it off, but they don't usually back down or run away if they feel threatened. That said, if you have better sources and would like to improve section you are most welcome to give it a shot. Zaereth (talk) 04:45, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

IPA transcription should be added
The article should have the IPA transcription for the word "moose" (probably /ˈmus/ or something) because it's a standard thing in Wikipedia. The Old Macintosh (talk) 12:01, 13 June 2023 (UTC)


 * It is a fairly standard thing, but I personally don't find it useful as most readers don't know how to interpret IPA. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:25, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Rabies
Just saw this. Rabies has been detected in an Alaskan moose for the first time, apparently there have been a few cases elsewhere as well. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:26, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Draught, not pack, animals shown in picture?
The picture next to "domestication" is labelled "moose kept as pack animals", whereas the picture definitely shows moose being used as draught animals.

In English as I know it (UK) a pack animal is carrying a load, while a draught animal is pulling one, and it is actually incorrect to exchange the two words. Of course, it is perfectly possible that the animals were kept as pack animals and only incidentally trained to pull sledges so they could do so on rare occasions - working animals are sometimes trained for both - but it is still not the most helpful of picture captions! (A screen reader reading a caption should give an accurate impression of what the picture shows, and this one doesn't).

Unless this is a result of regional variations in English usage, could I suggest it be changed to "Moose trained as draught animals" or some similar phrase? :-) FloweringOctopus (talk) 09:01, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2023
Moose have now been seen repeatedly in central New York, especially near the Mohawk River. The portion of this article about moose in decline since 1990 is seriously outdated. It’s sad that’s this article is locked down because I have videos and picture of moose near Rome, N.Y. That’s an area without moose for at least 120 years. Thanks. Snider33 (talk) 00:54, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Definitely check out WP:Reliable sources Cannolis (talk) 01:12, 13 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, and thanks for bringing your ideas and concerns here. That's how articles get improved. This article sees a lot of vandalism, so it's unfortunate that is has to be locked, but unfortunately that's the world we live in.


 * I'm neither accepting nor denying your request. Here's the thing. Wikipedia relies on sources. What separates us from the rest of the internet is that, while most contributors are anonymous, we don't simply take people's word for things. We need something like a newspaper article, magazine, or book. A reliable website would do, but no blogs, youtube, facebook, or personal photos as evidence. Few of us watching this article probably live in New York, so (speaking for myself) I would have no clue where to look for such a source. The easiest way to get this included is to find such a source and bring it here, and then we can easily update the article for you. I hope that helps, and if you can find such a source please do post it here. Thanks for you're help. Zaereth (talk) 01:15, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Fauna of the Rocky Mountains
Aren’t moose supposed to live in the Rocky Mountains? 2601:6C1:582:7610:45D0:27A5:9C01:E0C1 (talk) 14:11, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Doubtful, even in the Canadian Rockies. Moose aren't mountain climbers. Zaereth (talk) 18:16, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, they may live in the Rocky Mountain region but they don't seem to be interested on going up on actual mountains. I mean, why would you when you're huge and difficult to kill and can find food at lower elevations? Like most beings, moose don't like to work any harder than they have to. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:20, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Moose like low ridges in the summer time when there is wind and its hot. It's in the article and I've seen it happen. sbelknap (talk) 19:47, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * " In late winter, moose prefer river valleys with deciduous forest cover or alpine terrain above the tree line" sbelknap (talk) 20:22, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2023
Moose have now been found as low as New Mexico and on the Diné (Navajo) reservation. The New Mexico Department of Game and Fish has documented this extensively over the past 2 years. 2601:8C0:C201:EE40:5875:5CA2:9E92:8692 (talk) 00:37, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Ok, then, as a wild guess, I'm assuming you think this should be added to the article? For that, all we need is that documentation. Could you please provide it? Zaereth (talk) 00:42, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. UtherSRG (talk) 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Footprints and dewclaws
On looking through the available information on the web it appears that there is no reliable method of determining if tracks by a moose are male or female by noting the dew claw marks. Whilst it would be true that the softer the ground and/or the heavier the moose the more likely the dew claws will leave an imprint, there is no way to know how soft the ground and how much weight would be required, and it certainly doesn't distinguish equal sized males and females. There are no published tests to demonstrate the truth of the statement claimed, and there are no authoritative expert opinions to give it full credit. I am removing the claim on the basis of it likely being an unproven myth. Jameel the Saluki (talk) 13:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Orca Predation
Pretty sure this is a misconception based on a Tumblr post, is there a real citation for this? 2A00:1028:8384:A4CA:313A:4D94:5E28:E795 (talk) 07:08, 17 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Sure. Lots. Have you checked the source in the article? There also the book Encyclopedia of Marine Mammals which on page 930 says "Killer whales opportunistically intercept individual deer and moose as they swim between coastal islands." Plus many other books. There is also https://environmentalaska.us/orcas.html, https://seaworld.org/animals/all-about/killer-whale/diet/ , https://orcanation.org/the-life-of-orcas-biology-and-ecology/ , to name a few. I don't think anyone has ever caught a moose kill on camera, as it's fairly rare, but many moose carcasses have been found in the ocean with killer whale bites that were easily distinguished from sharks or other marine predators. Killer whales are also known to eat many other deer species, brown bears, polar bears, and they even set traps for seagulls. Zaereth (talk) 08:23, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Introduction to Newfoundland
Under population, it says that the current population is descendant from "just four that were introduced in the 1900s" (to paraphrase). However, in 1878, 2 moose had been introduced, and in 1912 a moose had been shot which was determined by James Howley to be an offspring of the 1878 pair (source: "The Introduction of Moose to the Island of Newfoundland" by Alan Byrne). So I don't think it's totally accurate to state it as is. More accurate would be "six individuals introduced in 1878 and 1904 [...]"

Furthermore (and this is really more speculation on my part, so please feel free to disregard), does it really make sense that the entire moose population of Newfoundland comes from just these 4 (potentially 6) individuals? Perhaps I am misunderstanding the genetic diversity found within moose, but it doesn't seem sustainable, especially for over 100 years. StuckInTheFridge (talk) 15:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)


 * If you have a very good source, then feel free to correct it. I haven't seen the source so I don't know anything about it myself. As for genetic diversity, what we know and understand about genetics is extremely miniscule compared to what we don't; the science is still very much in its infancy. There are more codes in a single strand of DNA than all the letters in all the books of the Library of Congress. Yet only a microscopic percentage of that DNA is used for anything and the rest is ancestral DNA passed down from eons and eons of evolution.


 * Many dog breeds originated from from only a few individuals, and even humans often evolved in isolated societies with very little genetic diversity, so it's definitely possible. There was a study done in Hawaii, where lava flows would cut vast swaths through the forests, leaving small "islands" of untouched forest between the rivers of lava. The insects in these forest-islands would stay and remain isolated from insects in other parts of the island. (Insects are great for such studies because their lifespan is so short.) They then tended to evolve along different lines than the same insects in other parts of the state, even from those in other forest-islands nearby, giving evidence that a lot of evolution probably takes place from such isolation and inbreeding. But it's definitely a possibility that a population of moose could be descended from just a few individuals. Zaereth (talk) 22:01, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Heraldry, addition
Swedish provinces Jämtland & Gästrikland also feature an elk (moose) on their coat of arms.

Moose mate?
There's an audio file on the page that is entitled "Moose mate". Judging by the sounds on that file, I suspect that the file ought to be indicated as "Moose mating call", or whatever it's supposed to be. Tmangray (talk) 03:39, 31 May 2024 (UTC)