Talk:Morale

Comment 1
Esprit de corps and morale while synonyms are not entirely the same thing. I don't want to be mean spirited but this is a somewhat poorly written, badly researched article. It would be good if someone could split the two back up and work on it. Perhaps the original author could revisit the topic.


 * I would go as far as to say this article is horrific. It is inaccurate, http://www.dictionary.com/browse/morale?s=t vs http://www.dictionary.com/browse/esprit-de-corps?s=t
 * Morale: "emotional or mental condition with respect to cheerfulness, confidence, zeal, etc., especially in the face of opposition, hardship, etc." vs Esprit de corps: "a sense of unity and of common interests and responsibilities, as developed among a group of persons closely associated in a task, cause, enterprise, etc."
 * The EDC redirect should be removed, and references to EDC should be removed, they are in no way shape or form the same thing. This article has conflated two concepts in a way that is not accurate or helpful to readers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ren47huj (talk • contribs) 17:22, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Cossacks
In the Cossacks games, does morale do anything? If so, what? (Please respond on my talk page.) tinlv7 00:05, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

esprit de corps
The correct spelling is esprit de corps in the French. Espirit de corps is how most English / American spell the term. Which spelling should we use?-- Shrieking Harpy   TalkundefinedCount 01:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I just did a Google search and esprit de corps is the more common usage. It appears that espirit de corps is just a common misspelling. Google spell check suggested the misspelling. Ronank 13:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. smile - -- Shrieking Harpy   TalkundefinedCount 13:59, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

esprit de corps pt. deux
Though they're related, morale and edc are not the same. Esprit de corps is, IMO, more accurately described as pride in one's organization, and no better example exists than the US Marine Corps. While there can probably be no edc w/out morale, presumably there can be morale with edc. Anybody feel free to elaborate in the text.

Just my deux bits.

B Tillman Jan 08  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.223.170.86 (talk) 22:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Small objection: EDC can undoubtedly exist without morale. EDC is pride in one's organization/unit etc; I do not believe marines would lose pride in being marines because of an utterly unwinnable war (ie alien invasion?), but morale would be nearly non existent in such a scenario. Military history is full of stories where troops were fully demoralized, yet had EDC, Battle of Camarón, Alamo, etc. These stories are referenced over and over and used as examples for troops because even when situations were hopeless the men fought to the end (no morale, high esprit). Ren47huj (talk) 17:32, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

evolotion
i was hopping to find out about how moral took plase in evolotion. for all i know animols don't have any sens of moral, but humens do, thow for an individual moral doesn't help. i tried to look in other websaits about the creating of moral but ther wasn't anything i hop someone will add a chapter on that!
 * See morality. --Vuo 08:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

i ment moral, how does it work? for moral to appear you need bouth meny people that are efected by moral and someone able to bring a system that will rase the moral

In games
I found that this text was blanked from the article on January 2, 2007 by an anonymous user. Does it belong or not?

<< == In games == - In certain role-playing games, characters may have a morale attribute. This usually serves to indicate how long the character will press a difficult fight before giving up or fleeing. Dynasty Warriors has a very important segment on this, for it means winning or losing. -   - In most strategic games involving military units such as Panzer General or Patton Vs. Rommel, units have morale ratings. These work similarly to the morale attribute in RPG's, where morale is decreased by failed attacks and when it reaches a low level the unit flees, broken. >>

--Cbdorsett 15:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Wiktionary
Is there any reason there's no link to morale for this word? That was what I came here for. --Matty 04:12, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Good suggestion.  Sister link added into new external links section.  See Wiktionary for details.  DutchTreat (talk) 00:43, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

"unrelated to morality"
That's an amusingly sweeping assertion. Later on "a belief in the values the military represents, and fights for" is listed as a factor affecting morale, which is a clear link to morality. Perhaps it would be better to say that morale is not the same as morality, rather than that it is unrelated. (An army identifying themselves as the bad guys or as the good guys would have a different level of morale, and so the ability to make this judgment correctly would affect morale in one direction or the other, but which direction depends on the circumstances.)

Also, more basic and practical concerns about food, shelter, ability to win, and so on, still feed into the basic question of whether one should continue to fight or not, that is to say, what to do next, which is the most fundamental moral question there is. There is no purely logical answer to this question without presupposing certain goals, which will be matters of opinion about right and wrong. 81.131.10.220 (talk) 21:10, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This has worked both ways, it would be nice if it was all "we are the good guys and therefore should win", but the approach and "we are the bad guys and therefore must win" has also been used forcing recruits to commit atrocities in order to bind them to an organisation e.g. Interahamwe and theLord's Resistance Army--KTo288 (talk) 00:31, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Morality and morale are utterly unrelated.
 * Imagine a scenario where a group of criminals are working on some sort of scheme (ponzi, or who knows what).
 * In this scenario these criminals could be making money hand over fist, their morale would be described as high (until they get caught) but their actions are immoral (the opposite of morally good). Even if you wish to only look at only military examples you need only look as far as mercenaries. They can have high morale (high pay and successful missions), but may be completely amoral (lacking in morality). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ren47huj (talk • contribs) 16:22, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Not just in the military
The term is used in many other areas of life. I don't know what project this would fall under (Psychology/philosophy/religion/???) but I'd say the article could stand the attention of some experts. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 15:56, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Possible Nazi bias
The phrase "Hitler's elite Waffen-SS divisions" in the examples of military units with high morale is likely biased. Various elite German divisions in World War II had high morale, not just Waffen-SS ones. The German Army (Heer) had many high morale divisions, including Grossdeutschland but also other panzer divisions (Lehr, for one example_, as well as panzergrenadier, mountain, infantry, and other divisions. The German Air Force (Luftwaffe) also had high morale divisions, including the Hermann Goering panzer divisions and several parachute (Fallschirmjaeger) divisions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.58.92 (talk) 01:43, 4 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Assume above already redacted or baseless. However it's funny or tragic or sumthin that compensation/consideration aren't factors listed in the workplace section. Lycurgus (talk) 16:35, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation
To my knowledge, and according to the page on french phonology, the uvular trill (represented by a small capital R in IPA) is not present in french, perhaps they meant the uvular fricative, which is written with an upside-down small capital R? 76.102.137.73 (talk) 21:33, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

The Redirects Should Cease Until The Article Improves
It is improper for "The beatings will continue until morale improves" to redirect here if the page makes no comment on it.

I agree.

employee satisfaction a proven sine qua non??
I doubt morale has much to do with the production of license plates. At any rate, I suspect the literature if fully examined on the role of morale or employee satisfaction in the workplace is more ambiguous with regard to its impact on work performance. Early efforts in industrial psychology to improve productivity by improving work environment led to rather inconclusive results. The bottom line, I think, is that "proven" is a bit of a stretch. At a minimum, there should be some discussion. Chris

Etymology
Would some discussion of the word's history in this sense be appropriate? The Oxford English Dictionary does not provide any citation before the mid-19th century for this sense of the word. That historical context might be relevant. Chris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:14D:4000:2D5C:E6CE:8FFF:FE5E:4F7C (talk) 00:45, 7 April 2017 (UTC)