Talk:Mordechai Anielewicz

Untitled
the title is also mis-spelled Mordechaj Anielewicz???

Spelling of name
This page has two different spellings of the first name. What's up with this? There needs to be either a correction or a redirect. Mordechai or Mordecai are the spellings that I'm used to.


 * His name was in Polish snce he was a Pole. However, if wkpedans decide that his name should be translated or transcrybed to nternatonal version - it hould be [Mordehay] (phonetic).Halibutt 12:20, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I agree with the above comment and have to say - it was annoying having to look around for this article as it wont show up in google under a search for mordechai... . ~Lev


 * As a practicing professional Holocaust archivist, I don't agree that Polish-born Jews' names -- this one in Hebrew (also Yiddish) -- must always be spelled in the English Wikipedia according to the Polish transliteration . This is particularly significant in the case of Zionist activists and those who lived and worked within the Jewish community. A more correct transliteration/transcription of his first name, and one widely used in English sources, is Mordechai, whereas the Encyclopaedia of the Holocaust, generally regarded as the leading authority among published reference works on the subject, spells it Mordecai. (The phonetic transcription suggested above by Halibutt is less familiar in conventional texts, and problematic in its rendering of the Hebrew letter כ with only the Latin letter "H".) I would support a renaming of this article. -- Deborahjay 00:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

What's with that??? it's an I at the end...but the title is a J??? Can someone fix it?

deletion
It was deleted so I looked in the history and brought it back. Some formatting is off still. (edit- formatting fixed.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.117.90.10 (talk • contribs).

Memorial in Wyszków
Please add note about his memorial in Wyszków, erected on place of former Anielewicz house. A.J. 11:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. You can do it yourself you know. :)
 * --Whamilton42 16:36, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I know but I don't trust my English, I've got only C on my final exams :)... and actually I'd like more than image... A.J. 18:41, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

death of Anielewicz
hello. the page says that Anielewicz died fighting the Germans, which might not be correct. Idith Zertal, in (Israel's Holocaust and the Politics of Nationhood, 2005) speaks of a collective suicide (page 35). Marek Edelman, Anielewicz's second in command, after the war, said that he had killed himself. The thing is, nobody survived from the bunker at Mila 18, the HQ of the ghetto revolt, so it is hard to say exactly who committed suicide and who died when the Germans pumped gas into the bunker. would it not be better to say simply that he died in the ghetto revolt? Jancino (talk) 12:11, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

His remains
The article says that his body was never found, but the inscription at the memorial to those who died in the bunker, which is in Zamenhof St, says that it is the grave of the fighters from Mila 18, and names Anielewicz as among those who lie there. I was there today and I have a photo of the inscription. Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 17:00, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen the inscription; but if the inscription says that "here lie's Mordechai Anielewics" then you're correct; but if it just says "here lie the fighters from Mila 18", and then there is a list of the fighters; it doesn't necessarily mean that his physical body is lying there; in such cases where there was no body; or unknown if his body is there; they would still have included him with the rest.


 * It's an inscription on a memorial not a Matzevah (tombstone). The difference is that a memorial memorializes, in this case, all the fighters from Mila 18, found or unfound. As his body was never found (a question if ever anybody came back to look); the memorial I assume was put on the spot where those who perished were put. In such a case where individual bodies weren't specifically known; a mass grave memorial was usually erected and memorializes or in other words is the matzevah of all those who perished there. Itzse (talk) 21:16, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I wrote the above before reading the article. Now after having read it; it seem that no bodies lie there, as they were probably "carried off to nearby crematoriums"; therefore this memorial memorializes all of them. Itzse (talk) 21:21, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Here is the inscription: http://adam-carr.net/photofolder2007/warsaw/P1030196.JPG
 * It clearly asserts that this is the grave of Anielewicz and 100 others. The memorial is technically on Zamenhofa but lies just behind Mila, so I assume it is the site of the bunker. (The current Mila 18 is at the other end of the street but I assume the street numbering has changed.) Now it is possible that after the war the bunker was not excavated and everyone decided to assume that the bodies were still there when in fact they were not. But what is the evidence that the Germans excavated the bunker and removed the bodies? Why would they bother doing so? If they did excavate it, surely this would have been apparent after the war. If there is no firm evidence that they did, in my opinion the evidence of the inscription ought to stand. Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 08:41, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * To make the discussion a little easier; I'll type out the insription.

GRAVE OF THE FIGHTERS OF THE WARSAW GHETTO UPRISING, BUILT FROM THE RUBBLE OF MILA STREET, ONE OF THE MOST LIVELIEST STREETS OF PRE-WAR JEWISH WARSAW. THESE RUINS OF THE BUNKER AT 18 MILA STREET ARE THE LAST PLACE OF REST OF THE COMMANDERS AND FIGHTERS OF THE JEWISH COMBAT ORGANIZATION, AS WELL AS SOME CIVILIANS. AMONG THEM LIES MORDECHAJ ANIELEWICZ, THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

ON MAY 8, 1943, SURROUNDED BY THE NAZIS, AFTER THREE WEEKS OF STRUGGLE, MANY PERISHED OR TOOK THEIR OWN LIVES, REFUSING TO PERISH AT THE HANDS OF THEIR ENEMIES.

HERE WERE SEVERAL HUNDRED BUNKERS BUILT IN THE GHETTO, FOUND AND DESTROYED BY THE NAZIS, THEY BECAME GRAVES. THEY COULD NOT SAVE THOSE WHO SOUGHT REFUGE INSIDE THEM, YET THEY REMAIN EVERLASTING SYMBOLS OF THE WARSAW JEWS WILL TO LIVE.

THE BUNKER AT MILA STREET WAS THELARGEST IN THE GHETTO. IT IS THE PLACE OF REST OF OVER ONE HUNDRED FIGHTERS, ONLY SOME OF WHOM ARE KNOWN BY NAME.

HERE THEY REST, BURIED WHERE THEY FELL, TO REMIND US THAT THE WHOLE EARTH IS THEIR GRAVE.


 * It seems that the words in the article, that his body was never found, is correct; because any survivors wouldn't risk coming back for dead bodies. So technically his body wasn't found even if there is a possibility that his body was moved or eaten by animals of prey. It seems that the assumtion after the war was that all of them lie there.


 * Even if not all their bodies lie there, the memorial makes it clear (here they rest where they fell) that their blood was spilled there. Itzse (talk) 20:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Ghetto memorial
Can we have a source for the assertion that the central figure in the Ghetto memorial sculpture is intended to be Anielewicz? It doesn't look very like him. In fact none of the figures look remotely Jewish - they are all generic Soviet-era "hero-faces". Also it would have contradicted Soviet-era views to glorify an individual leader - particularly a non-Communist one. I suspect this may be a myth. Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 20:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * What do you suspect might be a myth? Those who commissioned the sculpture; whom do you think they intended to portray; if not Anielewicz bravely standing his ground and leading his men into battle. Itzse (talk) 20:19, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I suspect it might be a myth that the figure is intended to be Anielewicz. The sculpture was commissioned in the time of the Polish Communist regime. Anielewicz was not a Communist, he was a Zionist, and Communist regimes seldom allowed anyone to be made a hero unless they were a Communist. Plus it doesn't look much like him. I'm not saying it's NOT him, I'm saying I'd to see a source which says it IS him. Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 21:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

two-stamp set in 1983 or 1993?
We write:

"In 1983, 50 years after their deaths, the Israeli government issued a two-stamp set honoring Anielewicz and Josef Glazman as the heroes of the Warsaw and Vilna ghettos."

1983 would be 40 years after their deaths, not 50. Multi io (talk) 12:33, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Nazi nonsense
From the article: Upon his return to Warsaw, he found that a major deportation to the Treblinka extermination camp had been carried out and only 60 of the Warsaw Ghetto's 350 Jews killed

Only 60 killed ?? What happened to: '60,000 of the Warsaw Ghetto's 350,000 Jews remained.' from a month ago ?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.82.146.205 (talk) 00:23, 7 May 2010 (UTC)


 * This was just part of a spree of vandalism by an anonymous editor. I have reverted the text to the last good version. RolandR (talk) 13:21, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

in popular culture
Re ''The actor Murray Salem played Anielewicz in the 1978 television miniseries Holocaust, while Hank Azaria played this role in the 2001 television film Uprising. Anielewicz is also a key figure in Harry Turtledove's alternate history series Worldwar and appears as a character in the Highlander 1997 novel Zealot and in the role-playing game Wraith: The Oblivion, where he is the de-facto leader of the Shadowlands version of the Warsaw Ghetto.''

Ok I can see reasons for the info on the miniseries and the 2001 film. But the alternate history series, the Highlander novel and the role playing game? I dunno, it just sort of seems inappropriate.radek (talk) 01:07, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

On the german version is a letter mentioned which he wrote to a close friend shortly before he died. i think it should be added to the english version too.

i tried to translate as good as possible

Farewell, my friend! Maybe we shall meet again. The most important thing is that the dream of my life came true. Jewish self defense in the ghetto has come true. Retaliation and resitance by jewish side are a fact. I have been a witness of the heroic bravery of the jewish combatants. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.188.100.248 (talk) 17:18, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

When the Soviet Red Army invaded and then occupied Eastern Poland in accordance with the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact?????
You simply can't prove that statement to be true. Whoever wrote that is the most illiterate propagandist on the website. If you're going to spew out your anti-communist oligophrenia, at least don't fully embrace magical thinking. 201.195.126.136 (talk) 15:14, 20 May 2024 (UTC)