Talk:Mordor/Archive 1

Untitled
One does not simply DRIFT into Mordor! (PowerGamer6 03:40, 21 October 2006 (UTC))

One does not simply edit Mordor
Considering the acceptance of that line in popular and memetic culture, does it warrent some attention at all? Maybe under Mordor in popular culture?

This Is Nonsence!
If this is true then we're all doomed, but it could never be! Awwww. This is nonsence. It must be deleated!

First Age
I have recently re-read The Peoples of Middle-earth, and found no evidence that Mordor existed in the First Age &mdash; near as I can tell it was formed during the War of Wrath by the immense destructive forces caused by the attack of the Valar on the Morgoth (Melkor dilluted all through Arda). I therefore removed notes that Mordor existed during the First Age. 08:31, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I disagree with whoever said that mordor didn't exist in the first age because mordor is in the south of middle-earth and ang band was past beleriand in the furthest north so the valar cuoldn't have caused a cataclysym but possibly fenced it in(i.e. Montains of terror,shadow. This unsigned comment added by User:198.163.53.11 on 12 June 2006, and moved here by Carcharoth 21:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Content moved from Brambles of Mordor
The following content has been moved here from "Brambles of Mordor" (now a redirect).

"In J.R.R. Tolkien's popular novel The Lord of the Rings, the Brambles of Mordor are large, ash-covered, fictional plants that grow in the black land of Mordor. The brambles are particularly noted for growing in the region of Gorgoroth, where nothing was said to grow other than the twisted, black trees. In the Red Book of Westmarch, the brambles are described as "...harsh, twisted, bitter, struggling for life..." and that "...everywhere great writhing, tangled brambles sprawled...". It is claimed that nowhere else on Middle-earth did brambles grow so big and black. The brambles had foot long thorns, as sharp as the blade of a sword."

Please add relevant bits to the main article here at Mordor. Thanks. Carcharoth 12:59, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The following is a more detailed explanation for my removal of the content at Brambles of Mordor and making it into a redirect:


 * The above text from 'Brambles of Mordor' is based entirely on the entry from David Day's Bestiary. Unfortunately, this is often an inaccurate guide to Middle-earth and should be treated with caution. In this case, the above text (and Day's entry) embellishes, speculates and incorrectly describes the brambles. It appears to be based on the following from The Lord of the Rings:
 * "Mordor was a dying land, but it was not yet dead. And here things still grew, harsh, twisted, bitter, struggling for life. In the glens of the Morgai on the other side of the valley low scrubby trees lurked and clung, coarse grey grass-tussocks fought with the stones, and withered mosses crawled on them; and everywhere great writhing, tangled brambles sprawled. Some had long stabbing thorns, some hooked barbs that rent like knives."
 * Unfortunately, the above text and Day's entry embellishes this by adding the following without any justification that I can find: "ash-covered", the "nowhere else" claim, the thorns being "foot long". Also, the mention of the trees is misleading, as these are different things to the brambles. And the "nothing was said to grow other than [the] tress" claim is patently false, as the above quote describes grass, mosses and the brambles themselves. Also, it is the trees, not the brambles, that are described as "harsh, twisted, bitter". Finally, the reference to the Red Book of Westmarch, while true, might lead the unwary reader to think that this is a book that is different to The Lord of the Rings, rather than a name used in the pseudotranslation device where Tolkien pretended to have translated the story in The Lord of the Rings from a copy of the Red Book.

Based on the above, there is almost nothing left to say about the brambles. But I will add what little there is to say into the Mordor article. The Brambles of Mordor article should, in my opinion, be left as a redirect. Carcharoth 22:42, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Well seeing that you have actually merged the text into the article, rather than last time where you simply placed it on the talk page, I will now agree. However, I'm a bit confused why it should be a redirect to mordor? Shouldn't it be directed to plants of middle earth or something? Thnaks, Spawn Man 01:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * That's a great idea! Except we don't have that article yet. The closest thing we have is Category:Middle-earth plants - would you like to write an overview article (or maybe a list instead) called Plants of Middle-earth summarising what is in those 13 articles, plus any other plants you can think of? That could turn out to be a really good article! Carcharoth 01:44, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, leave it to me. I'll get around to it in a couple of days... I enjoy writing new articles.... Thanks, Spawn Man 02:41, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation needed
There should be a disambiguation page to distinguish this from the computer game Mordor: The Depths of Dejenol. Shador5529 14:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Added the little "if you are looking for" blurb at the top to deal with this. Shador5529 22:28, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Slaves
Should there be a small section on the slaves in the more fertile south of mordor? Strike-through text —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dan crook54 (talk • contribs) 15:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

I certainly think so, as its important storywise to the book where saurons armies get their food. ravage 17.10.2006

Fair use rationale for Image:Mordor.png
Image:Mordor.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Glitch?
The article begins with this line on top before the introductory paragraph: "|footnotes=". When trying to edit the article, this isn't even there. Is this some kind of glitch and am I the only one who sees it (got firefox version 3)? 24.193.28.27 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 04:46, 7 November 2008 (UTC).

moradalgonuid@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.96.252.5 (talk) 14:33, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Morhdorh?
Is it really Morhdorh? I don't recall ever seeing that. — kwami (talk) 05:10, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps it is an early form found in the "History of ME" series; I can't recall. It certainly isn't prominent and doesn't deserve co-billing, as it were. I was surprised at how poorly written this article is. If i ever have the time, I'll try and work on it a bit. 222.230.130.38 (talk) 08:59, 16 September 2011 (UTC)Vainamoinen

Atlas of Middle-earth
I just removed this paragraph:


 * In The Atlas of Middle-earth, Karen Wynn Fonstad assumed that the lands of Mordor, Khand, and Rhûn lay where the inland Sea of Helcar had been, and that the Sea of Rhûn and Sea of Núrnen were its remnants. This assumption stemmed from a First Age world map drawn by Tolkien in the Ambarkanta, where the Inland Sea of Helcar was shown to occupy a large area of Middle-earth between the Ered Luin and Orocarni, with the western end being close to the head of the Great Gulf (later the Mouths of Anduin). The atlas was however published before The Peoples of Middle-earth, where it turned out that the Sea of Rhûn and Mordor existed already in the First Age, thus showing a late revision made by Tolkien towards the ancient geography of Middle-earth. However, the final state of geography devised by Tolkien was ultimately unknown, as virtually no discussion on the relationship between the Seas of Rhûn and Helcar was made in his later writings.

I have The Atlas of Middle-earth (first edition) in front of me and cannot find this notion anywhere in it. In fact the first big map, of the "First Age of Arda", shows Mordor with the Sea of Núrnen, and the Sea of Rhûn, and eastward a break in the map with the note "Uncounted Leagues to the East", beyond which is shown the Sea of Helcar. This directly contradicts the claim made above and nowhere in the text of the book is this claim made. So I've removed the whole paragraph, which was added to the page way back in 2004. Pfly (talk) 06:27, 23 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I've found this map which looks like it comes from the atlas. It does have a Sea of Helcar where Mordor was located in later times. De728631 (talk) 17:50, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting. That isn't in the copy I have. Probably from the second edition, which I don't have. I wonder if that means the "First Age of Arda" map in the first edition was taken out or changed. I don't mind if the text is restored, though it should probably be clear about being the second edition, if that is the case, and referenced, right? Pfly (talk) 18:23, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Right, as long as we can't establish the exact reference we shouldn't restore the text. De728631 (talk) 18:30, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, this seems to be in the revised edition: See Table of Contents, p. 16. I'm going to re-add the paragraph with this new references. De728631 (talk) 18:45, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. Now I'm curious to page through the second edition :-) Pfly (talk) 19:37, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Karen was good people. Science fiction fans of Wisconsin miss her presence at WisCon. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  13:57, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Include link?
Mordor at the Wikitravel.org travel site seems directly relevant.--IBobi (talk) 00:41, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but WP:ILIKEIT doesn't trump WP:EL. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  00:48, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Heh. Understood, but WP:EL includes "meaningful, relevant content." This is directly relevant to the page subject. Are there no humor links to subjects on WP?--IBobi (talk) 00:53, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Humorous links are neither meaningful, nor relevant in an encyclopedia. Also, as K7L has mentioned, you are adding links to promote your company's website which is WP:SPAM. – sumone10154 ( talk ) 04:35, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * If you're inserting gratuitous links to a site merely because your employer owns that domain, that's WP:SPAM. K7L (talk) 03:29, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Not encyclopedic, not useful, and only marginally funnier than an Uncyclopedia article. In other words, no thanks. -- Kinu  t/c 08:31, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Odd you should mention Uncyclopedia, as a template Uncyclopedia and an interwiki link have both been deleted at least once and just give a redlink like this one. For that matter, a huge chunk of Wikipedia's own history, the out-take reel which was WP:BJAODN, was deleted after about six trips through VfD. There have also been articles about humour, such as list of backronyms, which have been AfD'ed. I therefore can't see there being much consensus for a link from a non-joke topic here (Mordor is literature, not humour per se) to something created as an April Fools day joke off-site at this time. K7L (talk) 23:56, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Removed lead image
An anonymous editor recently added File:Blason Mordor.svg to the infobox. Nice image, but I have removed it. I notice it has been added to all the other Wiki articles on Mordor in other languages too.

Wikipedia allows a certain amount of latitude regarding original research in images. The problem here is that the image depicts a coat of arms, as if there were ever such a thing. A closer representation might be Tolkien's depiction of the flag of Mordor, which doesn't even resemble closely the 'coat of arms' image recently added. We also have File:Escudo Mordor.svg on Commons, which may be yet another example of OR, I can't tell.

A better image might be a screen capture of the Gate of Mordor from the film, or The Black Gate of Mordor original artwork on Commons. ~Amatulić (talk) 01:52, 31 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The only one of these acceptable in the box is Tolkien's image of the red eye on black. -- Elphion (talk) 15:00, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Moved Tolkien's image to infobox. Goustien (talk) 04:27, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Real world equivalent
Stromboli was the "real world equivalent", not "geographic equivalency", a most peculiar expression.Royalcourtier (talk) 23:10, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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"Brambles of Mordor" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Brambles of Mordor. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Hog Farm (talk) 04:59, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:14, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Gondor sketch map.svg
 * Location of Mordor 3019 TA.svg

Iraq
The fantasy world of Mordor, could possibly be the land of Iraq, which has been described as "evil and unforgivable" by the highest military strategy thinking.

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Caliphate
The armed proxy of the "Abbasid Caliphate" included the Mamluk of both Egypt and India.

this fact explains the early stages of the "Easterlings" and "Haradrim".

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Godzilla
the flag of Mordor, in pop culture appears to be as evil as Godzilla and species of reptiles found in Arabia.

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 * We can only discuss aspects that are reliably and independently sourced Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:09, 24 May 2023 (UTC)