Talk:Morgan (surname)

This article suggests that Morgan has been a surname since 1330, and this is ridiculous. It wasn't until the Act of Union in 1536 that "fixed" surnames were introduced into Wales and the process gradually continued through to the middle of the eighteenth century. The trend was stratified socially - the higher classes in society began the process, which then was passed on to the lower classes.

This would have meant that the first name of the father became last name of the son and fixed surname at different times in different families. It goes without saying that if you had a fixed surname before this date, chances are your family was not of Welsh origin. Cornovii Tribe in the North of Scotland! That's a new one for me. I can't imagine the Picts putting up with that. HWR

Hi, (separate from the above comment, which actually explains the some of the impossibility of the Irish Morgans being Welsh. My understanding is the Welsh House of Tredegar took the surname from a Morgan born c1330 (Morgan ap Llewelyn). The Welsh surname for this noble family first appears in 15th century (Sir John Morgan) and then discard by his son (Sir Morgan ap John) and then reclaimed... (check out http://tredegarhouse.blogspot.com/2005/11/morgan-ap-llewelyn-c1334-c1384-4.html)

The Irish on the other hand took dynastic surname in the 11th century.

Here are the earlest Irish records I found for Morgan in Ireland (both areas have a native O'Muireagain families).

In Ulster:

1311 Thomas Morgan juror of John Cadwelly, who stole a horse from the prior of S. Leonard of Dundalk and two horses form John Everard

1318 Thomas Morgan grants a messuage in the New Town of Dundalk

1323 Grant by Thomas Morgan, clerk, of a messuage in the New Town of Dundalk

1330 Quitclaim by William son of Thomas Morgan for a messuage in the New Town of Dundalk

In Munster:

1306 Thomas Morgan of Fermoy called as Juror

1311 Phillip Morgan and David Morgan Jurors in the trial of Robert Lovedey, charged with the death of Alice Lovedey; (county Cork).

1313 William son of Richard O'Murgan are admitted to make fine, etc., for all trespasses and felonies to this day except death of an Englishman and arson, by 60s., by pledge of Maurice de Carreu and Nicholas Randalf, ...; (county Cork).

1358 David Thomas O'Morgan, writ to the sheriff of Cork for his arrest.

1393 Morice Morgane is granted the ’Chancellorship’ of Cloyne. (source: "A roll of the proceedings of the King's council in Ireland, for a portion of the sixteenth year ..." by James Graves, Great Britain Privy Council)

Also of note is that Twenty five percent of Morgans who entered America where Irish, eight percent where from Wales? Source Ancestry.com)

Plus commerical genealogical shows over 10th different haplogroups (populations) that Morgans belong to. (see http://www.small-stuff.com/MORGAN/results.htm)

(Does anyone know why St Malachy of Armagh has been given the surname O’Morgain is some history books?) Original posting: Per the Morgans of Ireland; there are a number of native families that have been anglized Morgan along with other forms such as Murrigan, Moraghan, Morrin and Moran.

The O'Muireagain of southeast Ulster where a ruling branch of Airgallia, from the Ui Maelcraebe kinship a branch of the Ui Tuirtre. The Book of Lecan (14th century) describes the Ua Muireagain as one of the five families of the Ui Tuirtre. The Ua Muireagain pedigree first appears in Rawlinson B.502 (circa 1120); an earlier form can be seen in Laud 610 (circa 1050). Papal letters from the 15th century connect the Ua Muireagain surname with the Mag Murchadha of Clann Birn. (Initial Y-DNA results suggest that the Ulster Morgans are Halpogroup R1b1c and similar to the Maguires, plus Murphys from the Clan Birn area are showing affinity with the Morgan Y-DNA).

1072 Mael Muire Ua Muirigan, Erenagh of Tynan Abbey (county Armagh)

1096 Flann Ua Muireagain, Erenagh of Antrim Abbey (country Antrim)

The O'Muireagain, kings of Teffia, (members Cenel Maine of the Southern Ui Neill) are the probably origin of the Morgans of Galway, Roscommon and Sligo. Their pedigree are given in the 14th century manuscripts H.2.7 and the Book of Ballymote.(Y-DNA Halpogroup R1b1c7 'Northwest Ireland modal')

1038 (H.2.7 ) Conaing hUa Muricen occisus est o macaib Muredaig m. Catharnaig

T1066.3        Aibind ingen h-Úi Concobair ben h-Úi Muiricen quieuit. T1066.4        The son of Conaing O’Muiricen, heir apparent of Teffia, was killed by Aedh O’Conor and Tadhg O’Muiricen. The value of thirty ounces of gold was given by Toirdhelbhach O’Brien, and the son of Maelnambo, to Aedh O’Conor for his assistance to them, they assisting him.

M1067.7       Tadhg Ua Muireagain, lord of Teathbha, was killed by Muintir-Tlamain, in Maenmhagh (South Galway).

M1071.4       Aeghredan Ua Muireagain, lord of Teathbha, was killed by the Conmhaicni.

M1087.1       Maelseachlainn, son of Conchobhar, King of Teamhair, was killed by Cathal Mac Muirigen and the men of Teathbha, at Ard-achadh-Epscoip-Mel (Ardagh, Co. Longford), through treachery and guile.

M1095.9       Domhnall Ua Muireagain lord of all Teathbha, and Amhlaeibh, the son of Mac Conmeadha, son of the chief of Sil-Ronain, were treacherously slain, while in fetters, in Munster.

M1101.9      Cathal Ua Muireagain, lord of Teathbha, was killed by the people of the east of Teathbha.

1098 (H.2.7) Tadg mac Cernachan hUi Muricen ec atbath

1156 (H.2.7) Agda mac Cathail hUi Muricen ec atbath

An Eoganacht O'Muireagain pedigree is given in poem (circa 1320) by Cathan O'Duinnin in the Book of Munster; which would explain the origin of Morgans in Cork and possibly Waterford.

Feran O'Morgan found in the barony of Cootlestown in county Offaly is home to another O'Muireagain (O'Murchadhain) family of the Ui Failge. The Rawlinson B.502 manuscript (circa 1120) has the O'Muireagain and O'Murchadhain as members of Clan Colgan. (Y-DNA results are Halpogroup R1b1c and akin to the O'Brynes)

Another O'Muireagain family is found south of Arklow in County Wicklow.

Also I beleive the Markhams of Clare represent another O'Muireagain family found in county Clare.

Bernard.

I think there are some problems with this article's assertion that Morgan is a girl's name, dating back to a _man_ named Morgan ap Llewelyn. In Welsh, a first name can only become a surname by being a man's name because, as suggested here, a man's son takes his name as surname. Morgan ap Llewelyn was son of Llewelyn ap Ifor, and Llewelyn ap Ifor was son of Ifor ap something else. Morgan is thus definitely a man's name, and has only become popular as a girl's name through ignorance of its origins, much like Dylan. What I would like to see is when this started (the practice of naming girls Morgan). My guess is that it was relatively recent, via an anglicisation of Morgane. It would be great if someone would clear this up. 207.112.104.75 (talk) 22:11, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

On the subject of the Welsh origin of Morgan. "Archaeologia cambrensis" by Cambrian Archaeological Association (1873) in regard to entry on 'Achlach'; tell us that "about the year 1096 the rules of composition of music for Wales and Ireland were settled by order of Murchan, the Irish prince, and Gruffydd ap Cynan, the Welsh prince. This was Murchartus. (Ogygia, p. 438.)" Murchan/Murchartus in Ireland is known as Muircheartaigh O'Brien. So is the Welsh Murcan from the Irish Muircheartaigh?

(Incidentally some authors have pronounced that Muircheartaigh is the source of the names Murchadha and Muireadaigh. Murchadh per Corrain & Maguire 1999 is anglized as Morgan. (Murchadha's diminative is Murchadhan.) Another Irish name anglized as Morgan is Muireagain; which I cannot help wondering is a diminative of Muireadhaigh. For in Scots Gaelic the name Murdaigean survives; noting what lack of better description what 'Robertson Scottish Gaelic Dialects' calls a parasitic vowel. Example being Murachadh for Murchadh.) BernardMorgan @hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.236.152.194 (talk) 18:56, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I would like to offer another fictional Morgan for the list: Harry Morgan is the main character in Hemingway's To Have And Have Not. Peterob5 (talk) 07:39, 13 February 2013 (UTC)