Talk:Morgan Territory Regional Preserve

County location
This park is in Contra Costa County, not Alameda. See the address on the park web page: http://www.ebparks.org/parks/morgan, which gives 'Eastern Contra Costa Co' as the address. See also the county line on the map: http://www.mytopo.com/maps/?lat=37.7571&lon=-121.7896&z=11. And I clearly remember crossing the county line when I go there from Alameda County. I can edit this if I don't see any objections. Oku (talk) 05:52, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you are correct, so i changed the categories.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:27, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Article reclassified
This article meets the criteria for Start class. Bruin2 (talk) 21:03, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Merger proposal
Okay, I may as well start the official discussion. Merging Morgan Territory Regional Preserve with Morgan Territory.

I initially thought it was an obvious merge. However, I looked at a former revision of Morgan Territory here before changes by Parkwells, and this version described an area broader than the EBRPD preserve. It described the preserve as one segment of the region, which also includes Morgan Ranch, Morgan Red Corral, Morgan Sulfur Spring, and the road passing through the area. I think that is kind of interesting, so now I don't know whether they should be merged.

Notifying —Lights and freedom (talk ~ contribs) 04:19, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks -- I was looking at it as a page reviewer and not someone with subject knowledge. I think if these two things are different (right now the infoboxes are saying they're the same) then the articles need to make that more clear which would also be a fine outcome here. Jessamyn (talk) 15:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * If you look at the revision I linked, then you could see how the topics were different before. However I don't know if this broader subject is notable or original research. —Lights and freedom (talk ~ contribs) 16:15, 3 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi, all. At this point it may be easier to make two articles by switching the titles, because the Morgan Territory article was dominated by lengthy information about the history of the creation of the Preserve, and the additions of other parcels to it and to the Mt. Diablo State Park - part of recent or contemporary history. Then we could (potentially) expand the Territory section to encompass more of its history, for instance there were five tribes with small local territories in the region. It seems that even looking at both articles and questions about placement of content, that there is a big gap in history after Morgan's acquisition of land and ranching on it, and roads and other features being named for him. The early 20th century is blank. Were the Territory and other neighboring farms and ranches used for ranching until the 1960s and beginning of suburban development? (This is suggested by the names of acquired parcels.) I, too, am not really sure what information is available from Reliable Sources for this local history. Most of the history and roads content has no cites.Parkwells (talk) 17:51, 3 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Actually I think it would be better not to switch the titles to avoid future confusion. The content about the preserve was expanded a lot by you and I also added some before I reconsidered. We can move that content to the preserve article. I might research more about the region at some point in the future, but I'm relatively busy now. —Lights and freedom (talk ~ contribs) 18:02, 3 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm in the same position. Looking at the more historic content gives me more ideas, but do not have time to tackle that right now. It appears that Morgan ended up with 2,000 acres in the 19th century, after claiming 10,000 - some later verification of titles reduced his "holdings". (have to check if there is a source.) As the Preserve is now more than 5,000 acres, it is larger than the Morgan Territory of his ranch.Parkwells (talk) 18:36, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I was going it is massive, why bother. But I see that is sentiment.   scope_creep Talk  22:25, 3 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Am editing it to have this article focus on the Preserve (and its history of development, as there is so much and it touches on changing ideas about preservation of open space, role of non-profits in acquiring territory for preservation, etc.), and make the Morgan Territory article focus on the area from the prehistoric and colonial periods through Jeremiah Morgan's ranch, and early 20th century. It appears the area continued to be mostly rural on this part of the mountain, but was under development pressure as suburban population increased in the region and county.Parkwells (talk) 20:26, 20 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Any comments on these changes to the two articles to make them more distinct?Parkwells (talk) 17:38, 9 December 2021 (UTC)


 * My apologies for arriving so late for this discussion. After briefly looking at the latest published versions of both article and at the above comments, I suggest the following:


 * 1. Continue as two separate (though related) articles.
 * 2. Add (area) to the current Morgan Territory article title. This article will be the historical overview for the MTA.
 * 3. Keep the present Morgan Territory Regional Park District title for the second article, which should discuss only changes made since the formation of the EBRPD. Most of the history now appearing in the MTRPD article should be moved to the MTA article. We need to make clear in the introductory paragraphs of both articles that the park is only a subset of the MTA.


 * I hope these comments are a helpful addition to your previous work. Feel free to contact me directly, I'm happy to help. Thanks to all of you. Bruin2 (talk) 23:03, 19 March 2022 (UTC)