Talk:Moritz Wagner (basketball)

Requested move 22 July 2018

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved; there is no consensus for the proposed move at this time. That may change in the future. bd2412 T 17:16, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

– While the basketball player is most often referred to as "Moritz Wagner" (22,000 Google News hits), he is referred to as "Moe Wagner" enough (10,000 hits) to make it the new article title per WP:NATURALDIS, instead of relying on the less natural "(basketball)" qualifier. As for the current Moritz Wagner, it averages only about 20 views/day, hardly enough to be considered the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC ("naturalist" qualifier chosen based on his Wikidata description, feel free to suggest another). A new Moritz Wagner (disambiguation) should be created. The Moritz Wagner page itself should become a disambiguation page pointing to the two people. It seems too soon to make the basketball player the primary topic, as it's currently unclear if 20 years from now that he'll be more notable than the naturalist, but it's worth discussing here. He's been averaging 1000 views/day, spiked in the last few weeks after his selection in the 2018 NBA draft. (page views of naturalist vs. basketball player) —Bagumba (talk) 07:12, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Moritz Wagner (basketball) → Moe Wagner
 * Moritz Wagner → Moritz Wagner (naturalist)
 * The Lakers list him as “Moritz” though (link). And so did Michigan last year. I’d prefer to see more universal adoption of “Moe.” Rikster2 (talk) 00:11, 23 July 2018 (UTC)


 * oppose I'd like to see how he ends up being known this season.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:52, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Nomination update I reworded the part above about a new disambiguation page with this edit, as no nobody had commented on that portion yet. If anyone objects, I can move it.—Bagumba (talk) 04:13, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment Do you have any comment on removing the naturalist as the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and turning Moritz Wagner into a disambiguation page?  Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 04:15, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I am fairly confident that the naturalist is not the primary topic regardless of how Wagner will be portrayed this year.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:43, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Support the second move above.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:46, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose Moe is a nickname. He is not even listed as Moe. Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk on the other hand, we could make a case to move his page to Svi Mykhailiuk because that's what he is listed as.-- Rockchalk 717 19:39, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Are you ok with the 2nd part of the request to move the current WP:PRIMARYTOPIC to Moritz Wagner (naturalist) and convert Moritz Wagner to a disambiguation page?—Bagumba (talk) 09:51, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes actually for the time being. If his career takes off then we can reevaluate this when that happens.-- Rockchalk 717 17:14, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose second this is an encyclopaedia. There's no way this minor sports player can claim to be primary topic. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:42, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - In my opinion there is no way this minor naturalist is the primary topic either. I vote to make "Moritz Wagner" a DAB and move the other — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rikster2 (talk • contribs) 12:07, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The above proposal is there is no PRIMARYTOPIC and that Moritz Wagner becomes a disambiguation page. I am not proposing that basketball player become the primary topic. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 12:39, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose second there is a primary topic the scientist. It is bizarre to be discussing this on the talk page of a Lakers rookie. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:01, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Ambox warning pn.svg — Duplicate vote: In ictu oculi (talk • contribs) has already cast a vote above.
 * It's being discussed here because his page has caused an evaluation of pages named Moritz Wagner. It doesn't really matter where the discussion is held, as long as it's held.-- Rockchalk 717 20:49, 25 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Support move of “Moritz Wagner” to “Moritz Wagner (naturalist)” and use of Moritz Wagner as a DAB page. I just don’t see evidence that the naturalist has such a stranglehold on the name that he should be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. This isn’t Charles Darwin or Douglas Fairbanks we’re talking about here. I’d argue the last few years (since the basketball player rose to prominence in college) most folks searching for “Moritz Wagner” are looking for the basketball player. This reminds me of when we moved the Hall of Fame basketball player Kevin McHale to “Kevin McHale (basketball)” and used the generic as a DAB when the actor Kevin McHale started to dominate the search results for the name. Even though I felt the basketball player in that case was the more “historically significant” of the two, it felt like a DAB was an appropriate compromise Rikster2 (talk) 22:03, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 25 July 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Disambiguate, i.e. Moritz Wagner → Moritz Wagner (naturalist), and Moritz Wagner turned to dab page. We have a clash of WP:PTOPIC #2 (long-term significance) and #1 (popularity) here; therefore, the policy suggests disambiguation, and most posters were amenable to it. No such user (talk) 09:17, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

– clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC Joeykai (talk) 22:53, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Moritz Wagner (basketball) → Moritz Wagner
 * Moritz Wagner → ?
 * Support with Moritz Wagner → Moritz Wagner (naturalist). The basketball player is the primary topic, with overwhelmingly more page views. Adumbrativus (talk) 01:03, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose: This is a malformed request, because the target name is occupied with non-redirecting content and the RM doesn't include the other page. Moreover, the same question was discussed in an RM proposed by the same proposer less that a year ago, as recorded at Talk:Moritz Wagner (which the proposer neglected to mention). That recent proposal was rejected, and so was the one proposed here in July 2018, and I don't see a new argument being put forth now. The rationale appears to be based on WP:RECENTISM, as was already recently pointed out by Amakuru, Neodop and Necrothesp. There was a clear declaration that the "Consensus is against move" less than a year ago. This appears to be just forum shopping at this point. —&#8288;&#8202;&#8288;BarrelProof (talk) 23:33, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Strong Support Clear primary topic and intended page target of readers. There does not appear to be such a discrepancy in long term notability of the naturalist to overcome such an overwhelmingly clear intention of readers, and to conclude they should not be directed to the page they are very clearly looking for. While I realize there are those who feel things like sports, pop culture and the like inherently cannot be a primary topic, regardless of reader interest, general usage, or views, I'd ask folks to base their arguments off actual policies to avoid simply seeming elitist. Regardless, the suggestion by User:Adumbrativus would need to be included as well.--Yaksar (let's chat) 05:00, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: Added "Moritz Wagner → ?" to the request to make it more explicit. (User:Joeykai: feel free to fill in the "?" how you prefer.) Adumbrativus (talk) 05:52, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Strong support 2nd the basketball player gets 20,408 compared to only 188[|Moritz_Wagner_(basketball)] for this one. If anything the basketball player should be primary but I'm fine with a DAB given the problems with PT swaps and the above failed RM.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 07:34, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. WP:RECENTISM. Long-term significance favours the other one. However, I probably wouldn't be opposed to moving him to Moritz Wagner (naturalist) and creating a disambiguation page. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:39, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. At the very least, DAB at base name although I think the basketball player is primary.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:41, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose as malformed and poorly justified primarytopic grab. Dicklyon (talk) 03:24, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I realize some people oppose this move, but criticizing it as a "malformed" "grab" that has already been corrected before the !vote quite frankly seems spiteful, unnecessary and not particularly helpful for finding an actual consensus.--Yaksar (let's chat) 00:58, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose The basketball player is currently living person which has on wikidata less language versions than the death scientist. I also more tend to keep primary topic as status quo rather than disambiguation because of I do not see competence for naturalist. Sportsman give so extreme WP:Recentism. Supporters comments are not convincing for "disambiguation compromise", as recent pageviews are less important factor when we are talking about recentism on Wikipedia. Would you change "Dominos" in disambiguation based on pageviews/google results or Nirvana based on pageviews/google results? Dawid2009 (talk) 07:29, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, we would disambiguate, if a computer company called "Dominoes" reached $2T market cap. Obviously, apples are a much more important topic than dominoes, which is why neither company has been able to challenge the primacy of those terms. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 04:13, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Convert to dab, no primary topic A few of the supporters above have also said they are fine with a dab too. I don't consider a page with < 20 views/day a primary topic. Guideline WP:NOPRIMARY is OK with dab with just two entries.—Bagumba (talk) 08:37, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate. I think the naturalist may be more historically important, but when there is a >50x discrepancy in pageviews we are doing our readers a complete disservice to serve up a page they didn't expect. Disambiguation is the best option when the two aspects of WP:PTOPIC collide. -- King of ♥ ♦</b><b style="color:black"> ♣</b><b style="color:black"> ♠</b> 04:07, 22 August 2021 (UTC)