Talk:Mormon spectrums of orthodoxy and practice

Wiktionary
I appreciate that a few people have put time and effort into creating this page, but frankly I think this should be a wiktionary entry rather than an actual article. Seems to me that this article really shouldn't exist. It doesn't cite sources, because you really can't for an article of this nature. The reason you can't cite sources is because it's more or less a fringe issue without third party resources. "Cultural Mormon" seems like a neologism to me... here's wikipedia's guidelines regarding neologisms
 * "Some neologisms and protologisms can be in frequent use and it may be possible to pull together many facts about a particular term and show evidence of its usage on the Internet or even in larger society. It may be natural, then, to feel that Wikipedia should have a page devoted to this new term, but this is not always the case. There are several reasons why articles on (or titled with) neologisms may not be appropriate:


 * The first is that Wikipedia is not a dictionary, and so articles simply attempting to define a neologism are inappropriate.
 * The second reason is that articles on neologisms frequently attempt to track the emergence and use of the term as observed in communities of interest or on the internet — without attributing these claims to reliable secondary sources. If the article is not verifiable (see Reliable sources for neologisms, below) then it constitutes analysis, synthesis and original research and consequently cannot be accepted by Wikipedia. This is true even though there may be many examples of the term in use.


 * In many cases, articles on neologisms get deleted (either via proposed deletion or articles for deletion). Articles on protologisms are almost always deleted as these articles are often created in an attempt to use Wikipedia to increase usage of the term.


 * As Wiktionary's inclusion criteria differ from Wikipedia's, that project may cover neologisms that Wikipedia cannot accept. If you are interested in writing an article on a neologism, you may wish to contribute it to that project instead." gdavies 06:56, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Merges suggested
I have suggested two articles be merged into this article. Both articles cover cultural issues dealing with Mormonism that can be better explored in a single article, rather than several small stub articles that give little reference to the cultural issues involved in Mormonism.
 * I totally agree, is there anyone who really thinks that this should remain separate? There are no third party sources (which is a great indicator that the article shouldn't exist) cited... I'd imagine there are a couple out there, but certainly not enough to support these three articles individually. gdavies 22:38, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Humanistic Mormonism
This seems a bit sketchy as a movement, but could be covered in this article in that it is not the doctrines of the church, but the culture that drives the movement

Practicing Cultural Mormon
This is a small stub that should be included in this article. Not to mention that the C in cultural should not be capitalized.

Cultural Mormon is not a faith. Jack Mormon and Ex-Mormon also follow this suit. I believe them to be slang terms that someone has created. I have never heard such terms even thrown around, but even so, it would be classified as a definition. And as such, should can not claim part in an encyclopedia.

Definition Problem
The first paragraph of the article says that "Cultural Mormon is a term describing someone who is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints..." but then the third paragraph contains the category "Ex-Mormon". An Ex-Mormon by definition is no longer a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I agree that Ex-Mormons should be allowed to identify themselves as Cultural Mormons, therefore I suggest that the first sentence in the first paragraph needs to change to allow for Cultural Mormons who are no longer officially members of the church. Harrv 23:13, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think this whole article should be rewritten as Cultural Mormonism talking about the political, social and psychological issued with Mormonism, experienced by Mormons and non-Mormons. For, example Cultural Mormonism has some aspects in Australia in church worship, missionary service, etc., but the political issues, green jello, etc., really do not apply to that country. Bytebear 23:33, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This would still be separate from Culture of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because it should deal with the culture of being a Mormon and not cultural issued with church functionality, doctrine of practices. Utah is unique in the way Mormons live, and it is not the same as the way California, New York, British, Ghana or Australian Mormons live and behave. Bytebear 23:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * "An Ex-Mormon by definition is no longer a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." Not exactly... membership in the Mormon church has a formal meaning and until you officially remove your name from the records, you're still considered a member and counted in their statistics. If you're not going to church and actively identifying as something other than Mormon (e.g., Atheist, but culturally Mormon) you would also be an ex-Mormon, even though you haven't gone through the removal process (due to apathy or laziness, primarily). Cultural Mormon is the correct title because "Cultural Mormonism" implies there's some centralized or consistent rules or beliefs that might go into this other than just by virtue of having been an active member of the church at one time in your life. Carolyna 11:53, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I disagree with Carolyna. She is right in that there is a formal process to removing your name from the records of the church and that if you have not done this you are still considered a Mormon.  I think the confusion here rises from viewpoint- even if you no longer associate with or believe in the Mormon doctrines THE CHURCH and other members of the church still see you as a Mormon (an inactive one but a member non the less) even if YOU see yourself as an ex-Mormon.  So which definition of Ex-Mormon are we going to go with: the church's- you are only an ex-mormon if your name has been removed from the rolls of the church through personal choice or disciplinary action.  Or the individuals- I'm an ex-mormon because X-Y-Z even though my name is still on the church roll somewhere.--KidDocMD 21:21, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a difference between being an active LDS Church member and being "culturally" Mormon. Those having been raised in an LDS environment share a more-or-less common set of experiences and anxieties. It is that upbringing and common experience which makes a "cultural Mormon"—whether or not one ends up being a General Authority, a jack-Mormon, excommunicated, or an ex-Mormon-by-choice. Yes, the authority structure can determine whether or not you are an official member of the church. But it does not have the power to erase your cultural background--your formative experiences and upbringing. If you can sing "In the Leafy Treetops," "Book of Mormon Stories" and "Popcorn Popping on the Apricot Tree," you are, automatically, a "cultural Mormon"—no matter what path in life you have taken. Rangergordon (talk) 10:19, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I was the one who started the discussion on the definition problem, so I thought I should return to say that the edits that have been made since this discussion was started have fixed the problem, in my opinion. I like the opening paragraph as it stands now. Thanks for adding the clarifications. Harrv (talk) 21:43, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

LGB Mormons
Not everyone with a homosexual orientation is a Cultural Mormon. Many self-identified LGB Mormons belong to Evergreen, and fully support the aims of the church. Joshuajohanson (talk) 18:09, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Any information needs to be referenced. This article seems to e filled with a lot of original research. Bytebear (talk) 18:28, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Focus of page
Is this page about cultural mormons in general or practicing cultural mormons? It seems that the title says one thing and the body says another. There are a lot people with cultural ties to mormonism or who would identify themselves as some derivative of mormon, but who do not practice in any way. Since it seems that the community involvement on this page is kind of sparse, I'm going to just make the changes to bring it in line with the title of the article, and if you disagree with my edits, please bring it up here. Tombmarsh (talk) 23:48, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Not all Mormons are LDS
The definition presented in this article is overly restrictive. The term "Mormon" can refer to anyone identifying with a variety of the religious traditions tracing back to Joseph Smith Jr. Therefore, "Cultural Mormon" can and does apply to anyone who identifies with the the overall Mormon culture, and should not be restricted to only those who have had some tie with the LDS branch only. See Wikipedia article "Mormons". --17:34, 26 June 2011 (UTC)CraniumHand (talk)