Talk:Morris Iemma

Who wrote this?
Is there some way to extend the rule about self written articles to employees of the person concerned? The lack of objectivity in this article is appalling. It really makes Wikipedia look like an amateurish piece of work.


 * If you feel the article is not written from a neutral point of view, you should feel free to make changes to it. You should of course make sure any additions are well sourced, and if you want to make major edits it would bea good idea to discuss them here on the talk page first.


 * If you don't mind me saying so, you should also be careful to assume good faith and not make accusations like you did in the above. Just a suggestion - feel free to edit the article or discuss it further on this talk page. Jeendan 01:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

This article really needs reworking
It is way out of date and really doesn't give an objective picture of this person or the political environment in which they are functioning. Other than that, I have to agree with the comments above - this article is of a very low standard

--121.209.161.223 08:34, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).   WikiTownsvillian 08:56, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Surpised
I am surprised and perplexed as to why this man's wikipedia entry doesn't go into detail about the constant flow of criticism against him as premier. The "no-one-voted-him-in-and-no-one-wants-him" premier of NSW has single handed performed more tax payer funded financial ruin projects than any in the history of labour.

Whilst he was off playing action-man equiping the police with insane new powers and totally destroying what little was left of our commonwealth legislative civil liberties he managed to pour more tax payers funds down the drain than any other; this is an ongoing pattern of this mans career, from when he was minister of health alone there is quite a tonne of text out there on how he had the 'irish midas touch', by which (if you'll pardon my french), everything he touches turns to shit.

Further his praise of certain ethnic communities which are primary funders of the ALP drew a lot of flak and criticism along with allegations of taking kick backs from large construction companies who in turn boosted the coffers of the ALP.

As a long time ALP supporter, I personally am scared out of my wits that such a meglomaniacal and corrupt politician has become our premier without a single vote, his track record is peppered with tragedy and ruin, yet not a single word is mentioned of this. Anyone willing to give me a hand with a criticism section? 211.30.80.121 09:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * To follow on a bit from what you said, i think this article could have a 'Controversy/Criticism' section, and have that cross city tunnel outburst inside it, as well a few of the other high profile controversies surrounding Iemma, a few that come to mind are him not knowing the words to the National Anthem, and inaction over Cronulla retaliation attacks and the latest missing report on Cronulla, etc etc..


 * If i can find a few solid references for these things, i'll edit the page accordingly, unless someone has an objection--211.31.19.33 05:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Any criticism sections will be deleted on sight. They are non-neutral, pursue your agenda elsewhere. michael talk 06:34, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't particularly keep up with NSW state politics, but I do note the preferred premier and two party preferred polling on New South Wales legislative election, 2007... surely he can't be that bad? Timeshift 07:37, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Obviously the people of NSW did want and vote for him, otherwise the ALP would not of won the election. Alans1977 08:55, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Alans1977 - would not 'have' not would not 'of'. FFS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.23.146.66 (talk) 07:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The fact is that he took over because Bob Carr resigned and the state needed a Premier. This is a perfectly normal event in Australian politics.  In Victoria, John Brumby recently took over when Steve Bracks resigned.  In WA, Alan Carpenter took over when Geoff Gallop resigned.  In Tassy, Paul Lennon took over when Jim Bacon resigned.  If John Howard were to resign tomorrow, Peter Costello would become PM.  And all without any of the voters having a say about the transition.  They get to have a say whenever the next election is called.  Whether any particular voter loves or hates the new premier/PM has nothing to do with the process. --  JackofOz 13:27, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

What difference does it make? No school teacher or academic in their right mind accepts Wikipedia as a reference. Our college has banned it from footnotes indefinitely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.79.211 (talk) 21:34, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Please remember the talk pages of articles are for discussing the article cotnent, not expressing general opinions on the article subject or anything else. There's some guidelines at WP:TALK which outline this in more detail. If you think there is material in this (or any other) article that is inaccurate, feel free to correct it provided you have a reliable reference to attach to your change. Euryalus (talk) 21:57, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Everyone on earth accepts wikipedia as a reference. In that you cite the article that wikipedia cites, not wikipedia itself. :-) Timeshift (talk) 02:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

You are so deluded. WIkipedia is a joke. Once the Google version is up and running with proper accredited articles, Wikipedia will be history. By the way, your last sentence makes no sense. Well, about as much as your belief that Wikipedia has some kind of legitimacy. Dream on, loser. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.79.211 (talk) 07:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No, you're just upset that I trip you up, it's ok though. Wikipedia is a great place to cite, in that you cite the references that wikipedia uses. So you're citing non-wikipedic sources, GAINED from wikipedia, which makes wikipedia completely legitimate which you cannot deny! And Google's version will never even come close to wikipedia, mark my words. Others have tried before and failed. Wikipedia is way too established and has way too many articles to be superceded. Sorry to burst your bubble :) Timeshift (talk) 10:29, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Outburst
I am not convinced this event is of such significance that is deserves its owns ection in this article. Granted, at the time it made the headlines, but:


 * a) the issue has now disappeared from the media, and would be unlikely to rate in the top ten of voter concerns


 * b) it was one incident among many in a hostile relationship between the tunnel operators and the Government; and


 * c) given the length of the overall article, its inclousion as it stands is wildly out of proportion to its importance.

I would welcome any comments on why this section deserves its place of prominence. Jeendan 08:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I also agree that it should be cut and I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

Agreed. More on his policies and political views would be nice, but this issue is very minor, especially when there is not background given on the Cross city tunnel. Cut it. Recurring dreams 08:19, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Iemma quote
"There is no point in saving the planet if we ruin the economy doing it."

Did Iemma really make such a statement? If so, can we source this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ZwickauDeluxe (talk • contribs) 07:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC).


 * It's not really that note worthy I don't feel. Especially since there a lot of environmentalists who argue that it is in the best interests of the economy to make sure that we don't let human activities have an adverse effect on the planets climate. Alans1977 18:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Iemma editing own page
News of something being alleged about Iemma is not something that should be in his bio, especially given that he has denied it. Even more ridiculous is having a wikipedia entry in which the subject matter is someone doing something to a wikipedia article. Alans1977 08:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Once again I have deleted that paragraph. Come on people, don't you feel that it is a bit silly to have tertiary reference material (on wikipedia) about someone editing an article on wikipedia. If you disagree with me on that, please convince me otherwise. Alans1977 18:58, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with you.  We have to edit from the standpoint of the reader, and when a reader is reading an article about Morris Iemma (say), they're interested in Morris Iemma, not Wikipedia.  It only seems important and notable to us because we're WP editors - but to the neutral observer it would hardly make waves at all.  On the other hand, if Iemma were to make an election policy speech with a promise to crush Wikipedia and imprison all its volunteer editors, that would be worth a mention here.--  JackofOz 14:01, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed 110%. Unless there is convincing argument otherwise, that paragraph does not come back! Alans1977 17:41, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation of his name
I might be wrong about this (wouldn't be the first nor the last time) but I thought his surname was much closer to Lemma with an unaspirated [sp?] L than Yemma (first paragraph in the article/entry). Are there any linguists here who might have more of a clue than me. I don't really know well enough to be confident enough to change the article since most of what I know about linguistics comes from my ex-gf being a linguistics major. Alans1977 18:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've never heard anyone use an L, unaspirated or otherwise, when saying his name. Maybe you're getting confused with some varieties of Spanish, where double-L is pronounced "y" (eg. llama is pronounced like "yama").  Iemma is an Italian name, and "Yemma" is the standard pronunciation.  --  JackofOz (talk) 02:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

edit summary
fix... talk about a freudian slip... *cough* Timeshift (talk) 02:26, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

His father a communist supporter
I'd like to see more evidence than the scant reference provided, where the only time it mentions the word communist is:
 * The Iemmas owned a patch of land outside Martone in the hills of Calabria. In the 1950s, they scattered to Rome, Argentina and Sydney looking for work. Young Giuseppe was left behind: a communist in a conservative village. He had no time for the church. "A number of the priests were supportive of the right," Iemma says. "They always attempted to influence elections and votes. My father just bridled at that."

Timeshift (talk) 15:02, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * There's also a reference in that article to his father's Marxism. In addition there's this feature article which includes the statement "Giuseppe Iemma, proudly communist, clearly played a major role in shaping his son's political spirit." I've added this second reference to the article.


 * References in two feature articles seems sufficient to satisfy WP:V. A separate question might be notability but both articles state that Iemma's political views were shaped in part by his father's, so there's sufficient to indicate relevance.


 * Any other views? Euryalus (talk) 20:52, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Born in Italy or Australia?
Where was he born exactly? 202.92.43.51 (talk) 13:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The only son of migrant parents, Giuseppe and Maria, Iemma was born in Sydney in 1961, the year after they left the tiny village of Martone in Italy's impoverished Reggio Calabria. Euryalus (talk) 22:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Tense
He is not a former politician or former Premier yet. He is still Member for Lakemba until he formally submits his resignation and remains caretaker Premier until a replacement is sworn in by the Governor. 203.7.140.3 (talk) 05:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, he is a former politician. He's resigned as Member for Lakemba, which takes effect immediately the Speaker receives the resignation, which I understand happened this afternoon.  He still remains Premier, though, until he hands in his commission to the Governor.  The question of whether he's a current or a former politician, between the time he ceased to be member for Lakemba and the time he ceases to be Premier, is surely academic.  It will all be over this afternoon.  -- JackofOz (talk) 05:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually it's not. He has not yet resigned as Member for Lakemba. 203.7.140.3 (talk) 01:45, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Pronounced Yemma
This needs to be written as IPA pronunciation. 203.7.140.3 (talk) 05:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's correctly pronounced E-Emma. - 15.195.201.87 (talk) 00:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

WP:SOAPBOX
This addition is clearly not appropriate. Timeshift (talk) 04:32, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Iemma downfall
I recently added the below info to the article under 'Resignation' as it accurately represents with a neutral point of view a major factor for which Iemma had to resign as Premier. In March 2010, the The Daily Telegraph reported that then Leader of the Federal Opposition, Kevin Rudd had made a pact with Iemma to promise to help the then Premier Iemma privatise the state's electricity industry in return for him delaying the project until after the 2007 Federal election. The Daily Telegraph reported that they would go to war with the union movement after Rudd was elected if the State Government delayed its critical but electorally un-popular reforms. Rudd is reported to have said at a meeting in Sydney in September 2007: "If you help me, I'll get elected and you will prosper. Work with me and, when the time comes, we can f*** them [the union movement] together". After the election when Iemma started to find tendors for the privitisation bid, Rudd is reported to have said that "It's a state issue, I can't get involved" when Iemma asked him to uphold his end of the deal. A week later Iemma was forced out of office.

The edit has since been reverted with the edit summary as follows: "information of doubtful provenance, and noting this is a WP:BLP, it represents a WP:WEIGHT."

In BLP it asks that it represents the three core policies of WP:NPOV, WP:SOURCE and WP:ORIGINAL I struggle to find anything in the edit that contradicts the core policies of BLP, but a third opinion would be beneficial. In WP:WEIGHT, Due and undue weight this is one of the key critical reasons for the downfall of the Premier. It is appropriately represented under the title resignation as well as the size of the paragraph. Provenance, it is sourced from the Daily Telegraph and endorsed by Iemma himself. GJGardner (talk) 11:35, 13 June 2010 (UTC)


 * WP:POV, WP:OR, WP:SYN, Orderinchaos was right to remove it. Timeshift (talk) 12:17, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Please explian where it violates any of the policies. GJGardner (talk) 10:04, 14 June 2010 (UTC)


 * This comes under the "Wikipedia is not a sensationalist tabloid newspaper" tag. Ranging allegations without evidence against more than one BLP depending solely on one publication is not WP:NPOV. The Daily Telegraph is not a peer-reviewed publication and we tend to work on the basis "the stronger the allegations, the stronger the evidence required". This works whether we're discussing a Labor MP, a Liberal MP, a Greens MP, a public servant or any other person in public life. In order to survive here you need to learn to leave your partisanship at the door - it's painfully obvious across not only your contributions on this account but on several others you have used over the last year or so that you are a strong supporter of the NSW Liberal Party and of Barry O'Farrell in particular, and I shouldn't be able to figure that out from a user's contributions. Orderinchaos 10:14, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

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