Talk:Moses the raven

Having searched this morning for Orwell's fictional bird/priest character in 'Animal Farm' Moses the Raven I was surprised to find no page for him on wikipedia.

Accordingly I set about making him a page. [see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Moses_the_raven&action=history] This was quickly done: a fair character summary based on a brief study of the original text of the novel as posted on Project Gutenberg. I did not make any editorial statement that Moses represented the Russian Orthodox Church--and Orwell certainly said no such thing in the novel.

This edit was immediately edited to point to the "other characters" section on the main Animal Farm page, with the remark by the reverting editor, one M. Sigma, that Moses the Raven is "not very notable." Plainly this is subjective, and plainly I disagree. I am not alone: as long ago as 2009, "Moses the Raven" was added to the disambiguation page for the name "Moses" though it seems that no page was created at that time for the Orwell character. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Moses_%28disambiguation%29&oldid=325661021 Rather than just revert the revert this change, I thought I'd discuss it here.

I'd also point out that what I wrote is free from any editorialising statement that Moses the Raven represents the Russian Orthodox Church. This is certainly a prevalent interpretation of Orwell's allegory, and indeed Orwell's own interpretation of his intention, but it is not the only one possible. Orwell had, after all, three principal religious influences in his life: the rituals of the Church of England as an Eton schoolboy; the Buddhist monks he encountered in the temples of Burma as a colonial policeman; and as first hand witness to the barbarities of the Spanish Civil War in general, and the Roman Catholic church in particular.

Although the character of Moses the Raven is economically drawn, I think we are left in no doubt as to Orwell's contempt for parasitic black clad conveyers of politically convenient escapist fantasy in general; to interpret all that as narrowly as Moses being (only) 'the Russian Orthodox Church' is somewhat clodding.

For me, Moses is right up there as a memorable and important character along with Boxer, Snowball, Napoleon and Mr Jones, and I think he should have his own page.

Views?

LaFolleCycliste 13:26, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Orwell intended his story to follow closely the events in he Soviet union 1917-1943 - from the preface to the ukrainian edition of animal farm - "I have been convinced that the destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the Socialist movement." Orwell biographer Jeffrey Meyers has written that in animal farm Orwell 'brilliantly presents a satiric allegory of Communist Russia in which virtually every detail has political significance.'  so when Moses returns in chapter 9 that seems about right for September 1943 and Stalin rehabilitating the Russian Orthodox church, no? and that can be sourced to an academics say-so - " when the revolution turns conservaive and nationalistic, napoleon brings the raven back as Stalin brought back the Russian Orthodox Church.  Cambridge Companion to orwell, p.141. so its a plausible connection. --as for him being as important a character as napoleon and Snowball and Boxer - I dont see that - he only gets 2 brief mentions doesn't he ? - as for him standing more widely for religion - yes, sure, but it needs sources doesn't it - as for discussing all the different religious  things Orwell encountered - what has that directly to say to his story here in animal farm? if its relevant, it needs sources - please excuse my wandering expression , its late, but theres my thoughts. Sayerslle (talk) 01:11, 9 November 2012 (UTC)