Talk:Mother (video game)/Archive 1

MOTHER novel?
Mention was made in passing of a MOTHER novel. Details? (ISBN etc) I assume it was written by Itoi because, well, he's a novelist, essayist, and copywriter? --Boco XLVII 17:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not to sure myself, but according Time Rogers the original Mother game was "based on a not-so-popular novel of the mid-1980s". He doesn't credit any author for it, but I suppose it's something worth mentioning in the article.  My Japaneses is poor, but I'll see if I can't look it up.Princess Boy Laura 16:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems the original novel was written by one (久美 沙織). I don't know how to pronounce the Kanji though...  The Amazon reviews I found seem to indicate that the game was nothing like the novel; the two are completely different stories sharing similar themes, and from what I understand, the novel itself at all comedic.  Also, Tim Rogers seems to claim the novel itself was unpopular...  I shall add this to the article.
 * I looked up Kumi Saori (that novelist you mentioned) on Japanese Wikipedia. Apparently she writes novel adaptations of games pretty often (though MOTHER in 1989 was her first).  She wrote novelisations for MOTHER and MOTHER2, as well as Dragon Quest 4 and some other stuff.  But the games came first. --Boco XLVII 17:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Trivia
From the trivia: The game even had an increase in ROM memory size from 194.33 KB to 218.62 KB.

And what does that mean? Somehow a relevant information is missing here. --32X 03:39, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Neo Demiforce made several changes to it before they released it, including changing the title screen and fixing a major text formatting error. However, if you got the rom directly from them back then, it should've been in a zip file that also contained the unaltered file. (DrZarkov 02:06, 29 July 2006 (UTC))

Story?
This article gives no plot, characters, or gameplay details. Why? 24.116.120.82 03:14, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

RELEASE DATES
UVE MADE CLEAR THAT THE ENGLISH AND JAPANESE VERSIONS R DIFFERENT BUT WAT R THEIR RELEASE DATES —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.195.132.253 (talk) 20:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC).
 * The English version was never physically released by Nintendo (outside of certain copies for reviewers) since it was canceled at the last minute. Technically, it is not incorrect to say that it was released on April 27, 1998, since that was when the ROM was released publicly. 208.101.130.232 15:00, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Title Screen in article
Why was only the EarthBound Zero pic taken out? I mean, have it on top of "MOTHER", and it becomes an NES cartridge! Look: http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3417/ebzerotitlexf8.png

I know. This isn't a playhouse to fool around. How's this then:

Dragon DASH 09:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

My guess as to why it's been removed is because Earthbound Zero isn't the title... It is an unofficial title and not the same as the one in the original prototype. The name of the English version is simply Earth Bound (with a space), or "NES Earth Bound" in the legal screen that popped up in the first Earthbound Zero hack. 208.101.130.232 15:00, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Earth Bound and Mother 1+2
It's a fact that Mother 1+2 took a lot of the changes from NES Earth Bound (including the ENDING) and updated the game somewhat. So here's a real important question that needs to be asked - If the ROM for the English version of Mother were not released, would Mother 1+2 have had the changes? No doubt, there is a deep connection between the English Earth Bound and Mother 1+2, but I highly doubt that would be so if the ROM weren't released and the game was kept lost. 208.101.130.232 15:06, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Information
Anyone know where I could find any reviews or information on the development of the game? -- Tenks (talk) 04:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Title Screen Music
While doing an unrelated google search the other day, I came across a page which claimed that the music that plays on the title screen is not original to the game, but rather a piece of classical music. Does anyone know if this and true, and if so, what the name of the piece is? (DrZarkov 09:47, 25 July 2006 (UTC))

The song is called "Time Passage", and as far as I know, it was composed by Hirokazu Tanaka specifically for this game. 69.29.130.164 (talk) 18:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Title
Can anybody add why the game was named that way? Thanks. Bautze (talk) 18:15, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Gyiyg?
I always thought he was called Giygas. Are there a bunch of different names or something? Or should Gyiyg be changed to Giygas? I really have no clue. Cloudy fox 001 (talk) 19:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * He is called Gyiyg in this game. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 19:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, in the Japanese canon, his name has always been Gyiyg. The team that translated Mother mistranslated Gyiyg's name to Giegue, and the team that translated Mother 2 changed his name to Giygas. So while his name is technically Giygas in the North American canon, Gyiyg would be used here, since Mother exists only in the Japanese canon. LightningLuigi (talk) 15:37, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Concerning "Holy Loly"
I'd just like to clear up some confusion concerning the translation of the Japanese name for Mt. Itoi. "Holy Loly" is the offical romanization that appears in the Mother Encyclopedia. Here is a scan of it: http://starmen.net/merchandise/images/m1e_inside2.jpg

And here's a interveiw where Itoi himself pronounces it "Holy Loly": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKpaKlatg5M

While "Holy Rolly" is techniquely a more acurrate translation, "Loly" is still acceptable and this this case, the correct translation. Its kind of like how Luigi could be techniquely romanized "Ruigi". LightningLuigi (talk) 02:15, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Translation of "アナ"
"アナ" Literally translates to Ana, but that's not a real name; it's usually spelled as Anna. (Like Loid vs. Lloyd). Is there proof that the official name is "Ana" rather than "Anna"? Valcumine (talk) 00:37, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Is there any proof that it isn't? Giygas on LSD (talk) 17:39, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Ending
My last edit has been altered since I uploaded the original ending of Mother. The user Thomas01989 decided to remove it because it "adds nothing that can't described in text." This image is better referencing. That way we can compare the ending between the Famicom to the English Prototype. So finally it's back. Also, here is the source for the credits: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH42hrKyFv0

(Luigithemetal64) (talk) 14:30, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The video is a copyright violation and can't be used as a source. Also non-free images such as that screenshot are only used where absolutely vital to the prose/article, which a screenshot of the credits is not, especially if it isn't saying something that can be just written in prose. Best referencing would be citing an article that mentions the major contributors. czar  ♔  01:15, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Sales figures
Mother was successful in Japan, selling approximately 400,000 copies. Can someone verify the above citation? If not, I think it's safer to stick with Nintendo Power 150k figure. czar ♔   22:33, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination

 * Did you know nominations/Mother (video game) czar ♔   07:00, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Name
While the game has been known as Mother for a long time, readers won't be confused by the name change, and fans will understand what the title means. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 23:40, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The person who moved the article back suggests that mother is the common name for the game thought I find that questionable since the is going to be a lot of coverage under the EarthBound Beginnings name due to the official release and the officillEnglish release will attract a larger group of readers who have not heard of the original name Mother. I see EarthBound Beginnings as serving the general audience.--67.68.31.244 (talk) 23:50, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. If somehow enough sources begin referring to the game known for decades as Mother by another name, we can revisit a name change proposal/discussion. I'm familiar with the sources—if you review the sources attached to this peer reviewed article, you'll see that most refer to the game as Mother and not by another name. – czar   00:08, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Giygas' name and some of the other stuff from the Prototype could have changed in the English Wii U Virtual Console version?
I know that the prototype had Giygas was formally called Giegue before they named the main antagonist as Giygas in the English version of EarthBound (that I did see Llyod's name from the Trailer was corrected as Llyod that was used from Super Smash Bros. Brawl instead of Loid that was used from the prototype) and I did see some of the others from the trailer looked almost the same from the prototype, but, does anyone have downloaded the Wii U Virtual Console and see if there were any changes differ from the Prototype to the English version of the Wii U Virtual Console (just wanted clarification answer), I wanted to downloaded the game later until I had saved up enough money for the Prepaid Card or getting a game download code from the store and add more info about with the stuff from the Wii U Virtual Console version to to this page since I did recall seen Nintendo did had edited some typos and edit some elements to the Wii and 3DS Virtual Console version before?DigiPen92 (talk) 03:01, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Please do not post your original research. We use the language reported by the vetted vg reliable sources. – czar   03:13, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 15 June 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus. A discussion that has largely missed the point, to be frank. Supporters cite the new official name, either ignoring or oblivious to Wikipedia policy that "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's 'official' name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources". Opposers cite that policy and refer to the previous 20 years of sources, while seemingly ignoring that a paragraph down the same policy states "If the name of a person, group, object, or other article topic changes, then more weight should be given to the name used in reliable sources published after the name change than in those before the change."

I'm calling this a no consensus because neither side made a particularly good case for what reliable sources have been calling this game post-official name change. It should probably be revisited in a month or two, so we accurately assess whether the change has caught on in reliable sources. Jenks24 (talk) 11:46, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Note: On further consideration, it was unfair to characterise all opposers as having missed the point about what sources have used since the name change. There were several who did and, on the whole, their arguments were stronger than those supporting but not to an an extent that I felt justified a clear consensus against moving the article. Jenks24 (talk) 14:12, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Mother (video game) → Earthbound Beginnings – Nintendo has finally announced a release and official English title for the game, Earthbound Beginnings, so the page should be moved to reflect the official name. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:46, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Extreme Support - per CyberSkull.DigiPen92 (talk) 01:10, 15 June 2015 (UTC)


 * support I do not support the claim that Mother is the common name in English. This fails to take into account several issues. First, Several sources that have previously used Mother, due to that being the only official name of the game until now, are now using EarthBound Beginnings the new English of official name. Secondly, that argument does not take into account people that are not familiar with the series looking this up when they heard the announcement. These people would not know the game as Mother and we should be writting for a general audience.--67.68.31.244 (talk) 01:18, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose. A review of the article's sources, which are a representative sample of the sources available on the subject, shows that Mother is both the common and official English name for the game. Even in the sources on today's announcement, the game is known as Mother and not by the localization's title. If in the future sources refer to the game as "Earthbound Beginnings" rather than Mother, there will be a reason to discuss how the common name might have changed. Until then, the game has been and will continue to be known as Mother globally and in English-speaking countries until the sources show that they prefer another title, be it EarthBound Zero or EarthBound Beginnings. A Google hits search shows that the game is better known as Mother than by any other name. There is no evidence that the title that established a series and has propagated for two decades has been eclipsed in the span of a few hours. – czar   02:03, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * You're comparing search results for a title that is over two and a half decades old versus one that isn't even a week old. As with any recent official English release, the original Japanese name is going to get more. --Evice (talk) 16:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Mother is its English title in English-language reliable sources. The common name guideline says to use what the English-language reliable sources call the game. As you admit, the decades old name is the established name and the new name is unproven by usage in the sources. – czar   13:01, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * If I may, I think it is important to look at the news articles that have been written the past few days. All of them refer to the game itself as Mother and then say it is "released under the name of" Earthbound Beginnings, or variants of this. To me, it definitely seems that Mother is the name the game is known by, even after the western release, while "Earthbound Beginnings" is the title of this specific release of the game. The sources of the past 25 years are already starting to get outnumbered by the new sources (if we count each news report covering the recent anouncement), but all of the new sources still say "Mother 1 is finally coming out in the west! Oh, and they're calling it Earthbound Beginnings." ~ Mable ( chat ) 15:23, 18 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Note to closer: many of the "supports" are coming from new users unfamiliar with our naming conventions, and very few are citing any policy-backed rationale. The point of the common name guideline is use a subject's publicly known name as reflected in reliable sources. Even in the EBB announcement references, this game is already known in English as Mother. In all previous sources (I wrote this game's article), the game is known as Mother. There is no lasting evidence that this game is predominantly known as EarthBound Beginnings. This discussion is too soon for someone wanted to make that argument, though I'm sure no one would have an issue with entertaining it later down the line if the nature of the coverage changes (e.g., more than just reviews of the new release). – czar   13:01, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Strenuous Oppose - Come on. The VC release was announced yesterday. For the past 26 years the game's only name has been Mother. Articles and books have been written about it, reams of callouts to "Mother, the Japanese-only prequel to EarthBound". And you're trying to tell me that, in less than 24 hours, the entire English-speaking video game world has all flipped on what the common name for the game is? So much so that, according to some editors, not only should we move the page title but every instance of "Mother" should be changed to "EarthBound Beginnings", even the bits referring to 20-year-old Japanese reception? At least wait until the weekend is over, and you can actually see what the reliable sources are calling it now- all you currently have is hastily-written press release covers. -- Pres N  02:06, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support and against czar & PresN's ludicrous argument, this is an English Wikipedia, not a Japanese Wikipedia, it could get any newcomers to the Earthbound series confused, I mean we had The Mysterious Murasame Castle been renamed when it got released in the 3DS Virtual Console and alot of people got to know it more, I mean Earthbound Beginnings was released before the original Earthbound in Japan and I think alot of fans wanted to try out the game and Earthbound did make it in the Best Seller Category in the Wii U Virtual Console when it at the time when the game was released afterwards.166.176.58.120 (talk) 02:29, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose, mostly per PresN's argument. Wait a few weeks and see how everyone refers to the game then. I don't find it hard to imagine if "Earthbound Beginnings" would only be used to describe the Virtual Console port/translation, which isn't even really what the article is about. The title of the Famicon game hasn't changed. I reasonably expect that the game would be referred to as Earthbound Beginnings in a more general sense after a while, but right now, I myself can hardly think of the game itself as anything other than "Mother". We'll see what happens. ~ Mable ( chat ) 07:23, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Obviously support : It doesn't matter the game was known for 26 years by its JAPANESE name. The game's official international name is Earthbound Beginnings since yesterday. Wikipedia shouldn't judge which name is better, but be accurate. We should indicate it, while mentionning the name's history. 93.22.223.192 (talk) 13:17, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The official name is only part of it. What if its ignored and everyone carries on calling it Mother? We go by what the reliable sources say. We don't obey press releases.- X201 (talk) 14:30, 15 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose Per Czar, PresN and Mable. Nothing really to add, the original game is Mother, and nothing has changed about that. -- ferret (talk) 14:33, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Proposal - How about two separate articles? It's almost unheard of for a VC re-release to warrant a completely separate article, but I have a feeling this will get significant coverage on its own, separately from the original Mother release. ☺ ·  Salvidrim!   ·  &#9993;  16:21, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Knowing the interest in Earthbound-related articles on Wikipedia, I expect this is actually quite possible. Again, though, it's too early to tell. Most of the sources for a possible Earthbound Beginnings article would be related to critical reception, though, with absolutely nothing to cover its "development". This would be an article about a specific release, rather than a specific game. I have no idea if this is the best choice - a separate section to talk about the reception of the western release might make way more sense. ~ Mable ( chat ) 17:54, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think that would work since iI doubt that the VC port would be considered independently notable.--67.68.31.244 (talk) 22:52, 15 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose, 26 years of history, a single day does not erase. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:21, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Going to expand a little bit on this. The tension here is between using the WP:COMMONNAME vs. the quote-unquote "official" name. In every single debate about this I've ever seen on this website, the common name has won. I've been on both sides of the argument in different cases. In this case, there have been decades of academic literature referring to this topic as "Mother". Perhaps that will change in the next 26 years, as the "official" name comes into common parlance but that's a debate for the future. As of today, right now, "Mother" is still the most common name. Axem Titanium (talk) 22:20, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Are we erasing history by not referring to Final Fantasy IV as Final Fantasy II? --Evice (talk) 05:31, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * In addition, a more similar case would be how Tales of Phantasia's article uses the game's characters' the official English names, which didn't exist until almost ten to eleven years after its Japanese release. --Evice (talk) 05:46, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Is "Final Fantasy IV" now currently the most common name in English sources for the game that was originally released in the US as "Final Fantasy II"? I think the answer is unequivocally yes. Is "EarthBound Beginnings" now currently the most common name in English sources for the game that was released in Japan in 1989 as "Mother"? I don't think so. When it is, we can reopen this discussion. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:20, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Strong Support - Very awkward disagreeing with my favorite editors, but it is very clear to me that these games are called "Earthbound" in English, and should be reflected accordingly. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 20:44, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose, why not just stick with redirection for Earthbound Beginnings? As for the Murasame argument earlier, I'd have strongly opposed that too- it just seems awkward and silly to change something that's been known as something for literal DECADES, just because it finally got a proper English release. 92.111.0.48 (talk) 21:56, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * To be fair, Murasame is not nearly as well-known as Mother was. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 04:24, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Strong Support. The English Wikipedia is neither the Japanese Wikipedia or a fan forum and should therefore use the official English name, no matter how long ago the Japanese version was released. 212.116.76.106 (talk)|
 * Oppose per Czar, PresN, and Mable. Like ferret, I don't have much to add to this discussion. Regarding Salvidrim!'s proposal, I might not be opposed to creating a separate article for the rerelease should it receive notability independent from the original title, although it's also much too early to determine that. —zziccardi (talk) 02:11, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support WP:UE now that we have an actual English-language name, we should use it -- 70.51.203.69 (talk) 05:43, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * "Mother" is an English word. Axem Titanium (talk) 22:20, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It is not the English title it is the Japanese title -- 70.51.203.69 (talk) 04:35, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Super Mario Bros 2 is also English but we did not stop using the Loat Levels names due to that. Also both manga series 666 Satan and Detective Conan are English words but there was a consensus to use The official English names Oparts Hunters and Case Closed.--67.68.31.244 (talk) 10:59, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support It's the official English name, this is the english wikipedia 2001:8A0:6582:F901:E944:3878:428F:A3E (talk) 11:11, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support In the majority of the world (US and Europe), the game is called Earthbound Beginnings. Shigesato Itoi even referred to it as Earthbound and not Mother in a video here. I also started a similar page to rename the Mother (video game series) page here. Richiekim (talk) 15:03, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Interestingly, Itoi closes that video by saying "...and creating Mother, and creating the work that is Earthbound is somehow, for me personally..." and he even calls the series the "Mother series" after that. He starts the video by saying that it "will now be released ... under the title Earthbound Beginnings." He's talking about the specific release rather than the game. Not that primary sources have much influence on how we title our articles, but it's interesting to see the duality pop up everywhere. ~ Mable ( chat ) 15:11, 16 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Support, but I'll add that the B in EarthBound is capitalized (it's camelcase), even with Beginnings. The English Wikipedia tends to prefer official English-language names where one exists (if more than one exists, as with Trace Memory/Another Code, one of the two is chosen and not the Japanese name). --Evice (talk) 15:37, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Very few of our sources use CamelCase when discussing the new release, though. It would make sense for consistency sake, but a quick Google search shows the sources don't support it much. Only saw one who spelled it like this, that being GameRants. ~ Mable ( chat ) 15:50, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not saying earlier, but on the actual system (on the eShop and in the main menu; the title screen of the game itself still says "Earth Bound" as it did in the protoype) it's camelcase. --Evice (talk) 05:13, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose for now, just because it should be given time to figure out whether it will eventually become well-known as EarthBound Beginnings. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 19:27, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Come now, surely if your stance is "let's wait and see how things shake out", then you would be conservative about the name change and oppose it. Your reasoning doesn't match your position here. Axem Titanium (talk) 22:12, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * This is true, I meant to say "Oppose". - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 17:00, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hahaha just making sure. :) Axem Titanium (talk) 21:20, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support - This is an English Wikipedia not a Japanese Wikipedia, come on guys.63.249.58.117 (talk) 22:07, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment to the closing admin - there are an awful lot of single-edit IPs contributing to this discussion. Perhaps this is a hot button issue drawing people out of the woodwork, perhaps there's something else going on, who knows? Axem Titanium (talk) 22:12, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose: - Go by the reliable sources and WP:COMMONNAME. Changing stuff because of one press release is bonkers. - X201 (talk) 07:21, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The game has been already been released used the proposed name so no one had ever suggested to rename it due to a single press release.--67.68.31.244 (talk) 10:59, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * "One press release" (more specifically, an official English-language Web site) was apparently all it took for Dragon Quest IV, Dragon Quest V, and Dragon Quest VI. The first of these had a very different official translation before it was retranslated in 2008, and the other two didn't have one at all until the remakes. There was no (or at least very little) controversy over the names as there is here, and both series are pretty niche outside of Japan. Yet, all three articles use the new title (as opposed to Dragon Warrior IV) for IV and the English subtitles for V and VI, and they all use the new names for characters, locations, etc. --Evice (talk) 16:51, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Also the iOS releas of the first three games In the Dragon Quest Franchise was enough to get them moved to Dragon Quest even though all the games had been previously related in the West as Dragon Warrior. The first game actually was released in the West about a month after this game's Japanese release.--67.68.31.244 (talk) 04:17, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Strong Support: - We don't call Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War by its Japanese name, and that's a similar case, so why should we do it here? I say move to EarthBound Beginnings and be done with it. DN-boards1 (talk) 04:56, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * How is this at all a similar case? "Genealogy of the Holy War" only became the common English name due to "Seisen no Keifu" being a title purely in Japanese. "Mother" is an English word that people use globally to refer to Beginnings. At least for the time being, "Mother" is still the common name of the game, and as long as it remains that way, the article should reflect this. Jucchan (talk) 05:11, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Czar, PresN, Mable, and others. Until everyone actually starts calling this "Begginings" instead of "Mother", the current title should remain. If they announced Mother 3 to be Earthbound "X", do you think people would immediately stop calling it "Mother 3" after years of begging for a release? Jucchan (talk) 05:02, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose, move is not needed. -- Anar  chyte   01:15, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose - As Czar, PresN, and Mable have said, this is jumping the gun. If we move the page right now, we may find ourselves just having to move it back in a few months. It won't hurt to wait a bit and see how things pan out.--Martin IIIa (talk) 17:45, 22 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Reason for move protection
While I do not object to the protection itself, the reason currently cited for protecting the page is "Persistent vandalism". I feel like this is inaccurate. From the page history, all page moves appear to be good faith attempts to change the name, but did not establish consensus for the new name. I'm not sure what the reason should be listed as, but I think the edit summary provided when move-protecting the page was more accurate ("MPP due to pagemoves during an ongoing RM"), although part of that is now outdated due to the closing of the move discussion. -- Snorlax Monster  07:17, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Also it appears that no one has suggested trying to unilaterally overrule the close of the move request so I am not sure if the protection is even needed.--64.229.165.154 (talk) 18:36, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * People who plan to unilaterally move the page don't propose it. They just do it. It's probably a good idea to leave the protection in place for a while. -- ferret (talk) 20:23, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Giegue? Gyiyg?
Why is Giegue spelled like Gyiyg? EarthBound Beginnings was just released, making the spelling "Giegue" official. Is there a good reason as to why we are not using the name? –– ♫ Mara/Freya ♫ 09:00, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * We're using the spelling used most often in the sources. If the new reviews consistently call it something different, we can discuss those sources. – czar   16:55, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I've personally always seen "Giygas" used in sources. ☺ ·  Salvidrim!   ·  &#9993;  17:23, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * For EarthBound, yep, and that's what that article uses. For Mother, it's different (both from the devs and in the sources). Even though the "character" is supposed to have some continuity between the two. – czar   17:27, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Plot section
I see that in the source code for the plot section it is written

Since the "prototype" is now released, is it suggested that we change the names? –– ♫ Ellie ♫ 04:13, 19 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Let me just point to a few sections up,, and note that I would undo the last three edits if I could figure out how to undo multiple edits simultaneously. We kinda got this worked out, but the new edits are making all the articles in this series inconsistent with eachother again. If anything, name changes in this series should be coördinated - otherwise, we just end up with a mess in our hands. ~ Mable ( chat ) 04:32, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I've updated the out-of-date comment. I'm hesitant to change the names unless someone can show that the NA release names have had enough coverage to eclipse the JP names. Like the name "Mother" itself, the so-called Japanese names are presented in English (the Latin character set) and are better known and used in more sources than the localized names. Ironically, the localization has not received very much coverage at all after the initial release. – czar   05:25, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 15 September 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Steel1943  (talk) 16:48, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Mother (video game) → EarthBound Beginnings – Nintendo officially released the game in English as EarthBound Beginnings two years ago, and now the common name for the game is EarthBound Beginnings. The reliable sources that referred to the game as Mother (including the sources included in the article), now refer to it as EarthBound Beginnings, such as IGN, Polygon, USGamer, RPGamer, Nintendo Life (http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/07/24/earthbound-beginnings-review, https://www.polygon.com/2015/6/14/8779193/earthbound-mother-famicom-wii-u-virtual-console-nintendo, http://www.usgamer.net/articles/hell-freezes-over-as-earthbound-beginnings-hits-the-wii-u-virtual-console, http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q2-2015/061415d.html, http://www.nintendolife.com/games/nes/earthbound_beginnings) No reliable English language source refers to the game as Mother anymore, except as a secondary title. JenniBee (talk) 13:54, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Changed Earthbound to EarthBound in alignment to other articles related to the series. Cheers! Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 16:19, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I fixed this as well. Steel1943  (talk) 16:38, 15 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Support - English Wikipedia uses English names when applicable.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 16:08, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 16:19, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Look at the sourcing. The game has had an "English" title since its release, and that is primarily how it is known in English sources for the majority of its history and coverage—as "Mother". For comparison, WP has plenty of other games with release names that differ between regions. We use what sources use most often: the most recognizable (the name most people will call it), natural (reflecting what it's usually called), precise (unambiguously identified), and concise (not longer than necessary to identify), per the naming criteria (article titles policy). The sources linked above were reviews of the 2015 localization by the new title, so of course they would use the title under reviewed, but since then, the game remains known as "Mother". Especially considering how this game's importance is tied to its 20+ year history/legacy in Japan and not its later, official port in the West, this title is unambiguously better known as "Mother" than "EarthBound Beginnings". czar  18:07, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose - The subject of this article is Mother and its entire history: development, prototypes, translations, localization, etc. EarthBound Beginnings is only in reference to the 2015 localized / rebranded version of Mother. Most of the linked articles above use the names interchangeably / just as frequent as each other. The US Gamer article explicitly states E-B is a "rebranded, English-localized version of the 1989 Famicom RPG, Mother." Polygon states "Nintendo brings Mother to Virtual Console as EarthBound Beginnnings". Both these articles refer to the original game (which is the subject of this article) as Mother. The RPGgamer and Nintendo Life links are brief summary pages, not articles. IGN is the only article that calls it E-B consistently but it's a review of the 2015 version so that makes sense in context. Plenty of other sources on page still refer to game as Mother. TarkusAB talk 18:08, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose Per Czar and TarkusAB. They've both said what I was essentially going to, including noting how even the sources added to support a new name all clearly refer to it by it's original names, in the context of a new port/version. Either way, the original Famicom release is still simply "Mother", that is the name of the topic of this article. The Virtual Console release is essentially a port and a small portion of this article. -- ferret (talk) 18:22, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose English Wikipedia uses English names when applicable - wrong, they should use the WP:COMMONNAME, and "Mother" is an English word anyway, so this isn't really a valid argument. The game is still mostly referred to as Mother by most post-VC release sources, so I don't really see a real reason to change it. All links pointed out in the nom are ones that simply announced it in 2015, and/or a VC specific review on it, where it makes sense to use the newer name. ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 20:38, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment Earthbound Beginnings is now the more common title. Google trends for "Earthbound Beginnings" vs Mother Famicom now shows that Earthbound Beginnings is now the most common name for the game. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%22earthbound%20beginnings%22,mother%20famicom JenniBee (talk) 21:19, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The problem with searches like this is that you're tying Mother to famicom to try to filter it (Valid, of course, as Mother is a simple common word). What happens if we replace famicom with NES (The English common name of Famicom)? Now the trends are almost equal, with Mother currently leading. -- ferret (talk) 21:24, 15 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 21:30, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose – This article is about the original Famicon game, not the English-language rerelease. Checking some sources from the past year, it seems like Kotaku and The A.V. Club still refer to the game as "Mother" first and foremost. The Daily Dot refers to EarthBound Beginnings as "an English version of the first Mother game." Polygon didn't mention the original game in this article. Based on all this, I think it's fair to say that EarthBound Beginnings is simply the English-language version of the game, and not the WP:COMMONNAME of the game itself. ~ Mable ( chat ) 10:27, 16 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

FF3 vs FF6 at end of English-language release
The time periods don't seem to line up at all, but the source actually does refer to FF6 (FF3 for US SNES market). The comparison to a "newer system" and the fact that the actual NES FF3 never saw an English release till 2000s also agree with that. -- ferret (talk) 16:02, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Good catch. I attempted to rephrase but the sentence is idle speculation anyway and the NES end-of-life is already covered earlier in the paragraph, so I've removed it. Now to clean up all the other cruft added in the last three years... czar  16:44, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Rename
The common English name for this game remains Mother despite the rerelease by a different name, and the series is still known by the reliable sources as the Mother series. This rush to rename is premature. – czar   23:30, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I disagree with that, I think we should move this to Earthbound Beginnings, first that the official Nintendo Youtube video just posted today and they just gave a better new name, second that the title Mother is only used in Japan and was only used in English version of Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and third, this is a English Wikipedia not a Japanese Wikipedia.DigiPen92 (talk) 00:14, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Mother isn't an official English name. It's called that by fans and the Internet because that's the only official name it had until last year, but it's a strictly Japan-exclusive name. It's also commonly called by the unofficial name Earthbound Zero on the Internet, yet I don't see people make an argument for using that name. The only official English name it has is Earthbound Beginnings. The fact that we're still needlessly using the Japanese name is ridiculous. - 190.138.94.100 (talk) 21:01, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * A bit late but I also agree that we should rename it to EarthBound Beginnings. It shouldn't stay as a name that is more popular by fans when there is an official, English name available, especially after two years, on the English Wikipedia. We should always use the most accurate title. Celadonk (talk) 01:37, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree. The title has now officially been released in the west by Nintendo, so why not rename the page to Earthbound Beginnings? Jamie64326 (talk) 16:37, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * See below discussion. czar  20:24, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * At some point the renaming issue will need to be revisited as sourcing profiles will change. WhisperToMe (talk) 16:22, 21 October 2020 (UTC)