Talk:Motoko Kusanagi

Major or Sergeant Major?
Is she a Major officer or a Sergeant Major? In GITS:SAC2 episode where they fight the sniper (Saito) they refer to her as "the Major", yet she didn't appear to be the officer in charge. An NCO was apparently in charge in that episode. Jigen III 12:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting point. Could be because the JSDF was not "officially" overseas fighting, but I have no proof of that. TomStar81 07:26, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps she was a sergeat major back then, and has later been made a Major officer. She would most likely be quite high ranking, considering she's second in command in a high-up government organization.
 * She is an officer. Her subordinates and superiors address her in the series and manga as "Major," and in a manga episode that was not animated, one of her former superiors who she was after for espionage addressed her as "Lieutenant." --BrokenSphere 04:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * In episodes 5 and 6 of the first GITS:SAC season, where she's wearing the tan uniform, she has the insignia of a JSDF Major, either ground or air forces.Zhochaka 21:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Major is not her Section 9 rank, it is merely a nickname that she acquired, possibly from some former military service. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.129.54.110 (talk) 04:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC).
 * Her rank was Major. A Sergeant Major is the top of the food chain for enlisted personnel and, with very few exceptions, terminal grade. A Major is a field grade officer, at the level of a battalion executive officer. As for the episode with Saito, it is possible to be superior in grade but not be in command, especially in joint operations. As I recall, she never actually orders the American soldiers to do anything, rather suggests a course of action to the squad leader and volunteers to carry it out. This suggests a professional attitude and understanding of command, as it recognizes the command structure and the commander's authority while providing an alternative course of action.

Ok... I listened to the raw/dub for SAC, 2nd Gig, SSS, and the original movie. The word everyone uses for "Major" (from what I learned) is "shousa," or 少佐. WWWJDIC indicates that this is translated as Major, Lieutenant Commander, or Wing Commander, but is different than the JSDF Major (三佐), so whatever she is, she's not JSDF. Suggestions on this? Personally, I think its a nickname, or perhaps a rank in the Japanese Public Safety Commission, of which Section is supposedly a part of. Pyrogen 04:52, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

thumb|right|300px|Look at her soldier pads from the overhead view and compare them to the list of ranks for the Ground Self Defense Army on the left. The rank of Major and the design of Kusangi's shoulder pads are a match.
 * Its her official rank. Take a look at the picture on the left and the one on the right, and you will see the rank of major lines up perfectly. Now, whether or not the rank is binding in unknown; she may be a "simulated" major given that section 9 does not officially exist, but any way one looks at this it all adds up to the rank Major. These pictures should prove that beyond a doubt. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:15, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

To Do

 * add history
 * add info on her prosthetic body
 * add info on her from manga, SAC (perhaps comparison in order?)

I added a bit to her prostetic body, which might be better suited to a separate section. I just wanted to open up the page to information on 1). Why she dresses the way she does. 2). To what extent her brain has to be organic to still control her ghost (The GiTS:SAC page gives conflicting info) 3). Her tough guy personality, and when she shows a softer side, and what it says about her as a character. I'm in the US watching reruns on adult swim, so I don't have all the info other people might have.
 * I think the info about "when she shows a softer side" will need to wait until everyone's done with 2nd GiG, since that has a LOT to do with her motives and her past, and one of the most important times she does show said softer side. We discussed this on the Koukau Kidoutai LJ community recently here. Kawa 01:44, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * What about the full cybernetic body? Kusanagi's consciousness went to the cyberspace and she returned to a full prosthesis, she can even enter diffrent bodies (but not the same time) or upload her mind to the cyberspace. In my opinion, all of the content is about a full fledge cybernetic world with cybernetic bodies, society and in some manner even a cybernetic or android emotions (SAC) and thoughts. Maybe Kusanagi has her biological brain in first place but that changed for sure later. That should be mention in the articel, because what is written under Abilities isnt exactly right, better say not complete! How can her consciousness and mind preserved if her body/brain change completly or even without a body/brain. That is what it is about the Ghost in the Shell. The article missing the point.

Alias Reference
Does anyone recall what the name of her online avatar in SAC (I believe it was episode 9) was as given in the credits? This seems like it could go under aliases since it was not Motoko's own name. --Katsuhagi 02:48, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it was Chroma. 217.134.72.238 02:40, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

just added to that to do list
Do we actually know who the boy in the plane accident is? If so can someone add a link to it in the body of the article


 * Isn't it Kuze? Too many references. The exchange with the Major, the fact that he was a cyborg since young, the paper crane folding habit... CABAL 15:54, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe it is. I can't say for sure but I've seen in at least two places that it was. --Katsuhagi 02:55, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

don't know who's editing this - love GitS, mainly SAC, wanted to help out since the article looks a bit old (and stubby.) Kawa 18:51, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Is she lesbian (see 8th episode of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex)? Samohyl Jan 16:17, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It's not fully sure. She has a sort of lesbian cyber brain trip in the first manga, but she also has a boyfriend. So really, no one can know. Kawa 05:03, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * From what I've read about that scene, it's some sort of virtual cyborg pornography that only works with cyborgs of the same sex. It has to do with compatible parts and such, that's the reason why Batou feels nauseous after cutting in.
 * Anyway, Motoko's lesbian friends show up in GitS:SAC, including the Nurse, so it's like canon. I agree with Dread Lord CyberSkull, I think it's probably easier to classify her as a bisexual. --YoungFreud 21:34, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * All she seems to be bi to me. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 06:18, 2005 July 30 (UTC)
 * I've seen in a few places that she's bisexual (including something supposedly from Shirow himself) and it generally seems to be consensus among fans. --Katsuhagi 02:53, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The grammar of the second paragraph is so convoluted that it is impossible to understand. Who is the girl in question? Motoko? Another person? Would it be possible to make some phrases with standard subject, verb and complement please? --AlainV 03:06, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

i agree, the second paragrph seems to be in dire need of major copyediting, or perhaps someone knowledgeable in the subject should rewrite it from the ground up. --Tani unit 15:45, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll be all over it when the 2nd GIG is realeased. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 10:16, 2005 August 30 (UTC)

I propose that no large scale changes be made until the end of the 2nd GIG finishes. At that point, we can do one major overhaul to get all the relevant information into the article, which (IMHO) would be much better than making small edits every time something new pops up in the 2nd GIG. I suggest doing it this way because we (that is to say some Users and anons) have the latter problem on the Fullmetal Alchemist charactor pages: everytime an episode ends the information contained in a relevent article needs to be check for inconsistancies and upgraded with new info and such. Its a real pain in that place that you sit on, if you catch my drift. TomStar81 06:22, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

If you want, I can work on the article in terms of stuff we know about the character from the film, because I'm working on that article right now. This article on Kusanagi seems very focused on what we know from Stand Alone Complex, and I think it would be a great idea to add in info from the context of the films or the manga (which I have not read), because as of now, this article does not address some of the inmportant events in her life, such as her merge with the Puppet Master. In any case, I would like to start working on the character bio in the context of the first film immediately after I finish the article on it. What do you all think? Boneheadmx 14:13, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Better yet, why don't we split this article into two sections: one can cover the major in in the movie and film areana, the other in the anime series. This would allow you and others to begin the overhaul by discussing events in the movies and films that have already happened. We can save the SAC content until the end of the 2nd GIG. TomStar81 03:35, 4 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Sounds good, I'll start with the article in the film context as soon as I'm done with the editing the article for the film itself. You know, it's really weird how little info and people there are working on Ghost in the Shell as a whole project because a lot of other animes definitely have extensive coverage. It's just that it seems like the work around here is going a bit slow. If you need any help on your end, I'll be happy to give a hand. I haven't seen SAC, but still if you need me to look over anything, I might be able to help. Alright, thanks. Boneheadmx 04:11, 4 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I apreciate the offer, and may take you up on that when I start up the SAC part. For now, though, I have got to go study for my final exams. Its to bad that I don't have a cyberbrain, otherwise storing and retrieving infomation on Math 0311 would be so easy... ;-) TomStar81 09:55, 5 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Got the first part of the SAC down. Let me know what you think. TomStar81 23:48, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Different Variations On The Character
Don't the mangas, anime and movies have different storylines? Aren't each incarnation of Motoko different? I think we should make that more clear.


 * Your wish has been granted. :) "Motoko Kusanagi is protrayed in different ways across the different media of manga, movie, and anime. Since each of these have different storylines, the character has been adapted in different ways to reflect the focus of the story. Thus, her physical as well as mental characteristics differ widely from story to story, and this is reflected in the different ways that artists draw her." I will keep adding information to this. I have been working on the movie version of the character in order to contrast it with the SAC character. If anyone would like to step up and take charge for the manga character, it would be great. Boneheadmx 23:40, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Also, I think someone should get an image of Kusanagi from the manga to compare with the art from the animes and the movies. The anime and manga versions of her look quite similar while the movie version portrays her a bit differently, making her look older. Boneheadmx 00:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, so I've found some images of the Major in the various mangas. These two pages here and here contain some examples. We can use these to contrast the different ways that artists have portrayed the character. Personally, I would choose this (NOTE: Contains adult content.) ;). In all actuality, though, that would be highly inappropriate, so let's choose one that we can all agree on. Boneheadmx 10:25, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The portrayal ion the Manga presents sex via remote as being homosexual because the brain case of the body defines the genitals in use. Hence, cyberized, heterosexual intercourse causes extreme pain for the brains in question as the parts being excited are not shared by the two cyber bodies. Motoko and most cyborgs as presented would either be bisexual or not engage in any cyber sex as the Manga depicts it.(Ghost in the Shell- Human Error Processor. 8.26.1.15 (talk) 20:13, 23 August 2011 (UTC)Lifechanger

Citation?
I've been looking at the Citation tag in the GITS2: Innocence section for a while now, and it seems to be in increasing dire need of replacement each time I look at it. Should it be removed, or should I put in the quote from the "Making of" video included on the DVD?

"[Motoko] You are in the danger zone"

Notice I specifically referred to that video. The main movie itself replaces the Motoko in the captions with just Woman. CABAL 16:38, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I was the one who placed that citation tag and I will give you two reasons: So, if you can find an outside source (or I suppose the movie counts as an inside source), cite it. -- Cyde Weys 16:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) I didn't believe it from my own viewings of the movie.
 * 2) If it was true I wanted to know exactly why it was true, not just some assertion.


 * Can't really offer anything beyond what's shown in the "Making of Ghost in The Shell 2: Innocence" video included on the DVD. The vid at about 10:50 shows the cutscene where Batou is warned that he is "inside the killzone" while within the store, and at 10:55 it cuts to the recording studio, where Motoko's voice actor (Atsuko Tanaka) is saying the exact same thing. Batou's voice actor is visible in the shot as well. CABAL 10:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

It is possible that Batou was ghosthacked to believe that Motoko was helping him. This would be one instance where the voiceacting is justified, but not necessarily asserting the undeniable "fact" that it really was Motoko. I think that the source of her voice is a matter of debate as it is unclear whether it was actually her advising him or that he was ghosthacked to believe an arbitrary voice was Motoko which was guiding him. Though it is true the fact that Atsuko Tanaka did voice the line supports the possibility that it was Motoko who was speaking to Batou, the fact that the "danger zone" or "kill zone" statement turned out to be false points against the possibility that it was Motoko because she would not harm Batou with such false information. Personally, I would just sidestep the issue entirely and just leave it out. Boneheadmx 12:39, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * False? But he was in danger...from his left arm. Mayhaps the Major only got wind of it and could not discern any further details, merely being able to inform him only that he was in danger of some sort. I'd agree with leaving it out entirely, though. CABAL 14:20, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Cyberization definition?
I changed the caption of the "Young Motoko" picture so that it says "Young Motoko after undergoing full cyberization." The old caption referred to "receiving cybernetic implants", which is not really correct.

After rereading the caption and section, I realized that cyberization isn't clearly defined. Clicking the cybernetic link takes you to an article that deals more with the history and theory of cybernetics, rather than the fictional possibilities. Short of adding to the cybernetics article, do you think that cyberization needs to be defined here? --Tachikoma 21:48, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Not here specifically, but an entry on the primary Ghost in the Shell page would probably be good. IMHO, in Gits, cyberization is the act of converting oneself from a human to a cyborg. This process may be as simple as having a finger or toe replaced, or it may be as complicated as having ones entire body switched. TomStar81 04:53, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Depends on your definition of cyborg. If you go with the strict real-life definition, a human that cannot survive without his machine parts, then a guy with a pacemaker constitutes a cyborg. Why not consider cyberization and cyborgization to be separate? In the context of GITS, cyberization would only mean cyberizing the brain, as in the case of Togusa. However, no one in the show considers Togusa to be a cyborg since he lacks any other prosthetics. Indeed, now that I think about it, unless you have something other than the basic cyberbrain enhancement, the people in GITS still consider you human. CABAL 07:30, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Good point. I can agree to that. TomStar81 09:37, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * One thing is that I don't think they explicitly define cyberization in either SAC series. I haven't seen the movies. I think that Togusa is referred to as "a natural" because he has a cyberbrain implant but nothing else. The Major is referred to as "fully cyberized", which up until now I had thought meant that she has an entirely prosthetic body, but now I realize that it could refer to just the prosthetic brain. Yes, I realize that if your natural body were entirely replaced, you would end up with an artificial brain.


 * As for the term "cyborg", I believe the SAC series have only used it when talking about people who are more machine than human, both in the physical sense and in the way they behave. Look at the "Portraitz" episode, where Togusa meets a cyborg at a facility for Closed Shell Syndrome patients. If I remember correctly, the cyborg seems to act as if programmed to do set tasks.


 * I'm not sure how to define cyberization. --Tachikoma 15:23, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, if you look closely at the screens when they show personnel data for people, it explicitly lists level of enhancement as "cyborged". For example, the average Individual Eleven member was at least 50%, while the Major is well over 90%. The android in the CCS facility was just acting in a very serious, no-nonsense manner. Bodyguards in real-life have the exact same behaviour because their jobs do not tolerate screw-ups very well.


 * Also, if I remember correctly, the same term is used for the CCS-facility 'borg and the Minister's lackey whom attacked the Sunshine Society. The only common thing I can think of is that they're both heavily-modified. If you need screencaps, I can provide them. I have the DVDs for the first and second movies, along with the complete sets for Stand Alone Complex and 2nd GIG. If for some odd reason you want to put sample music in one of the articles, I have the OSTs for the second movie and 2nd GIG too. CABAL 18:30, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * You have an advantage over me in that I just have most of the second series taped off the TV. Would you perhaps be more comfortable in writing this? I don't mean to dump this on you, but you seem to have thought about this quite a bit. --Tachikoma 20:31, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't even know where to begin, especially considering that the original source material never bothered to clarify this. Tell you what, someone start something, and I'll shove it full of material, fluff and references. CABAL 20:51, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * In that case I will create a rough draft in my sand box touching on the aspects of this conversation. We can add to it (or subtract from it, as the case may be) from there. On a related note, should we start a whole new article for this or merely add it as a new section in an existing article? TomStar81 20:57, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
 * One thing to keep in mind is that there is an article called Cyborgs in fiction, which may be of use. The article doesn't mention GiTS in any way, but it does seem to have a low threshold for what counts as a cyborg--Geordi La Forge is mentioned as an example. --Tachikoma 21:15, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth I think it's made pretty clear through the manga, anime, and movies that the Major is a full cyborg. In this context "full cyborg" means everything is cyberized except for the brain; if the brain, too, becomes a computer, then it's just an android. What I'm not clear on is if the Major's "cyberbrain" is some sort of enhancement or a replacement for the natural brain. Anyway, she would still be a cyborg because she still has her ghost in the shell ... this is in contrast to Proto (from SAC 2nd Gig), who was never human. -- Cyde Weys 03:30, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Isn't it mentioned somewhere in the source material that her natural brain and a small section of spine are left? A cyberbrain is just a brain encased in a computerized shell, making it suitable for transplantation like any other organ and system-operation via MMI. By the way, does anyone know if there's an episode where they show the Major's stats like level of cyborgization?


 * P.S. What is the exact extent of replacement for Motoko? In real-life, damage to the first three or four sections of neck vertebrae causes more or less complete paralysis for everything below the neck. Damage at the first and/or second vertebrae causes immense breathing and speaking difficulties. Damage at the third vertebrae leaves the person with comparatively-normal breathing, talking and other things requiring control over structures of the neck. Damage at the fourth allows for the above and limited operation of the shoulders. CABAL 09:34, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Item A) I remeber hearing that the major was roughly 90% cyborg, but at the moment I can not remember the source.
 * Item B) I have rough draft in my sandbox; if you would like to read through it then click here. I am aware that this still needs work, but its a start. TomStar81 03:36, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Mind if I edit the article on your Sandbox? I see several areas for improvement already. CABAL 09:09, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll make an exception this one time, seeing as how we need some room to write. Feel free to edit as you see fit. TomStar81 09:36, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * 2 suggestions:


 * 1. "Several discusses throughout the Ghost in the Shell universe attest to the difficulty of conclusivly"


 * Perhaps "discussions" and "conclusively" would be better.


 * 2. "he lacks anything beyond the basic cyberbrain upgrade, which everyone needs to have."


 * I'm not sure how you would want to integrate this, but I think it's rare enough not to have a cyberbrain implant in GITS:SAC that it really stands out. I don't know what exact episodes say it, but I'm certain that it has been said a couple of times. --Tachikoma 16:11, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * How about..."he lacks anything beyond the basic cyberbrain upgrade, which everyone is more or less expected to have, much like a computer or handphone today in the real world." CABAL 17:56, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Points noted and spelling corrected. I am debating on whether to start a whole new article for my cuberization draft or simply attempt to incorporate it into one of the existing articles. What do you all think? TomStar81 03:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I suggest incorporation into an existing article. The page should only start splitting when the Wikipedia software starts complaining that the article is starting to get too large. CABAL 09:31, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

What's a splashpanel?
The term is used several times in the Manga entry. A wikilink or definition would be helpful. Is it a sexual term or a comic book term? And the Major has 32^2 nerve endings? Why not say 1024? The whole Manga entry is rather poorly written.

Nah nah nah you totally misread nerve endings. It's a measure of how many nerve endings per square area of skin, not a total number that is expressed in an unnecessary exponent. And "splashpanel" is certainly not a pornography term; it is a comic book term. I just don't know exactly what it means. -- Cyde Weys 05:48, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

A splash panel is a large panel that takes up most or all of page of a comic book for dramatic effect. Splash panels are usually used for dramatic introductions or action sequences, though they do appear in other contexts. - CNichols 06:18, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I was also wondering what a splashpanel is. Maybe it would be appropriate to explain this for the reader? --84.169.58.57 18:01, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

The number of nerve endings is expressed throughout the manga as 16^2 (not 256, and not 32^2 or 1024). --217.134.72.238 02:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

added wikilink to Comics_vocabulary#Splash_page. No29 17:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

CIS vs CIA
On the television I would swear that I am hearing Gouda’s group refered to as the "Cabinet Intelligence Service", yet here it seems to be the "Cabinet intelligency Agency". Which is it, and if its not CIS why am I hearing that? TomStar81 10:19, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * "Cabinet Intelligence Agency" is how it was translated in fansubs before the series was liscensed. Likewise, the Individual Eleven were translated as the "Particularist Eleven". -- Staren — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.246.125 (talk) 04:56, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

"bots that resemble tachikomas"
Unless the fansub I watched had seriously bad translation, these "bots" are the tachikomas themselves; that is, their AIs. In 2nd Gig they've gained the ability to dissociate their AIs from their bodies (their AIs are not even stored in their bodies any more - the bodies are remote controlled via sattelite, where the AIs are actually stored, though this is transparent and so the tachikomas don't realize it until one of them looks inside one of the others and sees the AI chip is missing). Like the Major's, their cyberbodies are slightly different from their physical ones - the visual form their AIs take in cyberspace is missing parts of their limbs and joints for some reason. --Staren — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.246.125 (talk) 05:00, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

their ai is in a satalite very importent to the plot — Preceding unsigned comment added by Towers84 (talk • contribs) 09:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The "Stand Alone Complex" section of the article
I removed it entirely. The two paragraphs were just explaining the dividual/individual/dual episodes and the stand alone complex term. They haven't got anything to do with the *character* Motoko Kusanagi and they belong to the Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex page (where they are already explained, so it's also redundant). Pasi 01:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

The note on the 1995 film version
There's a note on the end of this section that says: This needs to be better said. Many humans propagate artificially, after all. Perhaps it means propagates without a physical body? I agree. I propose removing the final sentence and adding this:

"The puppet master draws numerous distinctions between itself and the characteristics of an organic lifeform. Ultimately, Kusanagi and the Puppet Master agree to merge, forming a new entity with all the advantages of the Puppet Master's abilities in net-space and Kusanagi's physical presence and position, with the added bonus of variety, similar to the variety inherent at a genetic level to offspring of lifeforms which combine the DNA of two parents to form their young. This contrasts with the vulnerability to viruses that is a danger of simply copying a computer program such as the Puppet Master, or transferring to another prosthetic body as Kusanagi does."

Any thoughts? YourMessageHere 03:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Age
The article says the Major's cyborg body has the appearance of a 25-year old, but her real age is mid-thirties. I'm sure somewhere I've read/heard her real age is a lot more - mid-fifties perhaps? Can anyone confirm this? --217.134.72.238 02:58, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

In the comic continuity, her age is unknown as is if she was ever human to begin with (209.248.160.82 16:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC))

Dates come into this. In the GITS:SAC version, the date of the first Laughing Man attack is in early 2024, six years earlier. And she was cyborged at age 9. So the Major can't be much more than 30 if she's in our future. Since the timeline was set a good few years ago, there's some leeway. Make her 50+. and she becomes a cyborg in the mid-Eighties. Not plausible. Also, mid-thirties is a good range for a Major, especially somebody competent enough to be headhunted by Section 9.Zhochaka 22:27, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

There ist some age information in the GITS universe, because we know it's chronology and know the JGSDF's rank system. Let's see: 2020 Mexican War and South American campaign The point when Motoko met Saito for the first time. Already there she is called "Shosa" = "Major" by her fellow soldiers. Now let's see what JGSDF's rank codex has to say: << You need at least 10 years of active service to get "Shosa" >> It's impossible to join JGSDF before 18 years of age, and you need another 4 years to become an officer, and 5-6 years if you study. Where did she recieve her excessive knowledge of communication technology? I think she studied it in JSDF National Defence Acadamy. Motoko was 22 years when she became officer, she joined Army Intelligence of JGSDF (she had talent), while she was studying for another 2 years. So she was 22+10 = at least 32 years of age in the South American campaign in 2020 4 years later, during the Laughing Man incident she was ~36 In 2029, Section 9 was formed, she was ~41 years Kusanagi has never been headhunted by Section 9, because she knew Aramaki since she joined Army Intelligence. In 2032, beginning of 2nd GIG, she was ~44 years (approximately same age as Kuze) In 2034, 2 years after she left Section 9, she is ~46 years of age. Following this logic, she was born 1986-1988 and became full cyborg in 1995-1997. In Shirow's chronology it's a realitic date. Now we can bring some Feng Shui(which Shirow is fond of) in this story if you want. What is Major more like: A tiger, a rabbit or a dragon? Judging from her fighter/hunter character she is most likely a tiger, what means she was born in 1986. Following his chronology, she was killed in action in 2048 during Hecatonchires System Establishing in the age of 60-62 years. -Skilled_sniper 31. December 2007

"Themes of pedophilia"?
Maybe it's just me, but to say that the series "raises themes of pedophilia" on the basis of one scene in one episode in which Kusanagi appears to proposition a minor (who is, as the article says, a teenager, not a small child) seems a bit extreme. The sentence would seem to imply that the theme recurs in the series on a semi-frequent or at least occasional basis; however, that is not the case. As such, I don't think the pedophiliac overtones of the one scene are significant enough to Kusanagi's overall characterization to require an entire paragraph devoted to them. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this matter? Bouncybluepenguin 06:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * One also needs to consider the age of consent in Japan is 13 - lower than most countries in Europe and North America 87.112.19.182 18:53, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Deleted the reference. Pedophilia is sexual attraction to pre-sexual children. The scene in question has absolutely nothing to do with pedophilia.

This section under Relationships delves into this territory with assumptions made about Kusanagi's motivation: "In Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. 2nd GIG, Episode 17 – "DI Mother and Child – RED DATA", having taken an adolescent male to a hotel after rescuing him from yakuza, both share the same bed for the night, with Motoko attempting to seduce the boy and to gain his trust. The boy asks Motoko if cyborgs can still have sex, to which Motoko responds "You care to find out?'" I bolded the bit in question. I would've edited it, but felt it deserved further discussion given that this Talk section exists. If there are no objections, I'll modify it to simply state what she did, and leave out the unverified motivations. Thoughts? 98.186.127.140 (talk) 05:39, 15 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The reasoning for your making the change is sound enough, as it is "unverified".
 * Yet a defense to try to justify or rationalize the same exact scene such as "She may have simply been attempting to call his bluff, or any number of other things."
 * "-may have", Is equally speculative, and unverified. By your own logic.
 * What bluff was there to call? He asked a simple, very simple "yes" or "no" question, she didn't even need to turn over in his direction. All she had to do was say yes or no.
 * The question itself is consistent with his desire to go prosthetic, so in terms of writing, the question makes sense for him.
 * What does not make sense is Motoko's inappropriate response. Could've even gone the route where she explains to him that there are complications in "E-sex" but there's nothing to be scared of, or the genuine consequence of sacrificing human connection for synthetic imitation of sex.
 * She answers his question, we get some lore, done is done, ie. good writing.
 * But having her cheekily "playfully" proposition sex to a kid not even shaving yet is a bad look. Even as a joke.
 * If they wanted to impress, they would've had her half naked as they did, and NOT do what they did just to avoid being typical & flex their maturity as showrunners. My mistake for expecting that much, given how they treated Motoko throughout S1 (with the exception of some formal events where she's in Formal Military Dress) otherwise exhibit #A being that god awful outfit she always wore while literally all the male characters were actually dressed for the workplace. Crotch shots, ass shots. Very contradictory treatment of a character we all take seriously, why not treat her with equivalent respect that's indicative of how professional the show itself is displayed to be? SAC is a decent show, good even, but the fact that it's anime weighs it down when it shouldn't be when it comes to stuff like fanservice. Some writers can't handle prioritizing what matters.
 * Now, to be fair, and back to the argument: Given it's such a minute/minor moment in Motoko's entire SAC history, I wouldn't paint her character too badly cause of this one situation, as bad as it looks. Because this is the type of stuff you (easily) should put in deleted scenes, cause it adds nothing if that's what you decide to do with it.
 * It's not as bad because in reality, she was NOT serious. In context, what she actually did is use a risque reply to discourage his prodding into the cyborg subject again. Her face seconds before she replied, was of concern, because Chai was so hellbent on becoming a Cybernetic, she didn't call a bluff, so much as go sultry offense to diffuse his curiosity.
 * The problem with this is, "the point" of the scene, and episode is to display her showing concern, she's still human. Problem is she already did that twice before that scene. She already commented on how young he is to try to get the prosthetics op, and what we know about her tragic situation with the plane crash, and how painful it was for her to be cybernetic as a child we know why she feels this way. Even she comments on how surprised she is invested in the kid's safety later in the same episode.
 * So the entire bed scene was unnecessary. 
 * But let's call as it is, which is creepy, on her part & the writer. Period, plain and simple, what she did, in world, was of good intentions but it was creepy. The context is she was diffusing his curiosity for his own good, because she cares about the kid as much any person would a child they just met, and the kid wants to risk life & limb just to emulate someone else. But what she said to do it was ridiculous.
 * Her being sexy, hot, not a guy, age of consent in Japan is bla bla bla, etc. etc. (All the usual excuses/ non-arguments that mostly males put forward) doesn't make it not creepy/weird/gratuitous/ nor her overtones not pedophilic. Cause why would you ever say this to a child you don't know, even if you did know them, even when your intentions are good, and for Motoko they were.
 * He turned her down anyway, so the conclusion of the scene was just awkward. She already showed concern, so the scene was unnecessary beyond her leaning over giving the "look" to an underage boy, sheet draping off her, just all kinds of intentional innuendo, which served absolutely nothing & no one in the story.
 * It's only a discussion when people make exceptions/excuses, sad to see it's been happening since pre-2010, nothing's changed. Ridiculous. "Fans" need to stop with the excuses, and realize you can acknowledge she had her reasons, but accept what she did was out of proportion. Listen people, you can acknowledge both, and still like the show.
 * Point being, you can acknowledge what's wrong with it, and still like it for what it actually said overall, and did right.
 * Being a fan doesn't mean make endless excuses, defense for the sake of defense is not an argument.
 *  TL;DR Your logic for editing it is fine, you explained what happened instead of it looking like slander on the character, because her "trying" to seduce him to earn his trust, is NOT what happened.  Whoever wrote that, misunderstood the subtext. Though your logic speculating what she "might have" meant is equally speculative, and unverified.
 * Still a good episode, still a good show. Mokoto still GOAT, she just had a "hol' up" creep moment cause the writer of the EP (a dude ofc) didn't prioritize the character over the fact that she's in an anime. Some cats should really rub one out before writing anything, if they can't handle that kind of base level temptation in the writersroom. 2601:C4:180:8C90:38E3:FC4:6E44:A0 (talk) 21:26, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Differences in releases
There is a problem with the sexuality section, in reference to e-sex. "This panel was cut from the American release of the manga, as it would have entailed giving the book an "adults only" rating and Shirow decided it wasn't important to the plot." This statement is false, as the Dark Horse American publishing has the scene in question, in all it's uncut glory. The only thing appearing to be missing is the explanation of what the scene is supposed to mean (until now I thought it was simply fan-service). — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.106.221.56 (talk) 18:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC).
 * It was originally cut from the release as per the reasons stated, not necessary and it would give an AO rating. It was later returned in another release. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.119.210.17 (talk) 15:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

new redirect
i added "the major" as a redirect

hope no one has a problem with it, if so please let me know

peace Ancientanubis 22:33, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * "the major" could refer to anyone anytime who held that rank, or even if they didn't. I've changed it to redirect to the Major article. --Gwern (contribs) 04:37 25 January 2007 (GMT)

character analysis
second paragraph

"Did you dress like that just to distract me?" to the Major, who replies "Like I can help it."

it's in episode 14.She is actually not very dressed because she landed in garbage earlier.That's why the remark is made in the first place.--Pierson&#39;s Puppeteer 00:34, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No one has mentioned that when you remove the sex scene from the comic, with the exceptions of the cover art, Motoko is hardly ever wearing particularly revealing in the original comic, and is usually pretty covered up all the time. I read somewhere that shiro wanted those pages pulled from the TPB because he realized how much it changed the dynamic of the character. 209.248.160.82 16:26, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Original Research
Please add some references to the Character Analysis section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.196.101.152 (talk) 16:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * This section contains information taken from the manga Ghost in the Shell.
 * This section contains information taken from the manga Ghost in the Shell 1.5: Human Error Processor.
 * This section contains information taken from the manga Ghost in the Shell 2: Man/Machine Interface.
 * This section contains information taken from the anime Ghost in the Shell.
 * This section contains information taken from the anime Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence.
 * This section contains information taken from the anime Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.
 * This section contains information taken form the anime Ghost in the Shell: S.A.C 2nd GIG.
 * This section contains information taken from the anime Ghost in the Shell: S.A.C. Solid State Society
 * This section contains information taken from the novel Ghost in the Shell: White Maze.
 * This section contains information taken from the novel Ghost in the Shell: Revenge of the Cold Machines.
 * This section contains information taken from the novel Ghost in the Shell: The Lost Memory.
 * This section contains information taken from the novel Ghost in the Shell: After the Long Goodbye.
 * There. A comprehensive list of sources for the section (and by extension, the entire article). TomStar81 (Talk) 19:06, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Plot
I disagree with the fact that the plot is to long. Its only talking about the character and her motivations. You can only do that by mentioning the sytuations she gets in in the movies, anime and manga. The reason the plot thread is so long is because there is simply alot to tell about the star of the Ghost in the Shell series. Fell free to disagree, but this is my pov.--62.163.98.243 10:52, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

LGBT?
A fictional cyborg belongs in the LGBT project? This is nonsense! --Energman 10:47, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It is standard practice to tag all LGBT people, dead, alive, real or fictional, with our project banner. They do get worked on. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 02:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * With three distinct versions of the character, manga, movie, and TV series, it's probably worth keeping better track of which version is being referred to, and when the material was produced. I can see a character being ambiguous in 1987, suggestive in 1997, and obvious in 2007. And it doesn't make any version wrong. Zhochaka 17:52, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Supposadly, in the manga motoko works as a lesbian internet porn star of some sort. But this is not necessarily canon, as Shirow agreed that it was not a necessary scene. Also, Motoko clearly has two girl friends (seen in the TV series and the manga). I am sure she has some bisexual leanings to herself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.119.210.17 (talk) 15:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Sexuality section really that important?
Is it really essential that her sexuality be the first thing dealt with in the entire article? I think the section is a little long as well. Can't you just call her bisexual and be done with it, instead of indexing every encounter, and including an elaborate description of why 'cyborg sex works better if you're gay'?Darien Shields 23:03, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually the sexuality section is bit vague - in GitS:SaC season 2, conversation between Kusanagi and Batou gives the impression that Motoko is actually he, not she. He's using female cybernetic body due to its features, like charisma and flexibility. It slightly conflicts the original series as described in article. S33k3r 21:31, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm going to have to disagree with that, although that seems to be the case on the outside, realize Batou constantly jokes around with Kusanagi. Anime confirms that Kusanagi is a woman. For example, when Kusanagi enters the "memory keeper store", the shopkeeper tells the story about a girl who underwent full cyberization. Kusanagi even states that it was the "first boy she liked (or loved)". Whatever it was, Kusanagi refers to herself as a female as well. Several other members of Section 9 affirm her gender. Ishikawa once referred to Kusanagai as a "female gorilla". Togusa also called her an Amazonian. I also noticed that the section on Kusanagi's sexuality has been removed. I believe that is an extremely important aspect of Kusanagi. Chronicles1289 05:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe it was all a joke from Batou. He was stating that since she act so masculine (although still feminine to me) she should go with a male model body. I believe they said something about a male body having more strength. But motoko stated that she liked the flexibility and other features of her current body. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.119.210.17 (talk) 15:33, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * she is a ladyboy ♥ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.150.212.171 (talk) 14:31, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Sexuality
I realize that the sexuality section was indeed probably in need of a cleanup and some cuts, but should we take it out alltogether? I mean sexuality is an extremely important part of the Major. Her charachter has always been that of an extremely sexual woman, and that does affect the people around her and is an important part to the character. Like I said, that section was in need of a cleanup and possibly rewrite, but her sexuality is a huge part of her. PS shes totally hot and pretty much every guys fantasy woman...except she'd kick your ass and probably kill you...*sigh* ...if she existed76.105.40.151 (talk) 02:23, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, I noticed the convo about how her appearances changes, well what about the very skimpy pink suit she wears for pretty much the whole SAC series? There should be a pic of that. 76.105.40.151 (talk) 02:28, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree on both parts. Navnløs (talk) 20:27, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * She has always been fairly open about sex. But she certainly does NOT sleep around. I believe it was talked about in the manga and TV series. Since she lost her body so young, she doesn't really FEEL like a female. So, sexual encounters help with that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.119.210.17 (talk) 15:36, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Youngmajorcybernetic.jpg
Image:Youngmajorcybernetic.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 03:12, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Continuity Question
The main article on Ghost in the Shell clearly states that the film and television series take place in similar, but alternate realities, whereas this article states that first, then goes on to say that they are meant to be part of the same continuous whole. Why the contradiction? The "salient" issues listed (similar chronology, tank designs and apprehension techniques) are all to be expected if the 2 seperate continuities took place in, for all intents and purposed, slightly differing versions of the same "reality". Other than those thematically similar plot devices, the continuities differ pretty dramatically. I think those last lines should be removed since it serves little purpose other than to confuse the issue, or at least dramatically changed to reflect that the continuities, while meant to be thematically similar, are not directly connected, as in, "this happens in the movie, then this happens to the same version of the character in the television show". Thoughts? Astraeos (talk) 06:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Gits sac poster v.jpg
The image Image:Gits sac poster v.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


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Rank?
Is the rank section really necessary? it's filled with a lot of original research and i suspect it's not even possible to make that section notable to keep>Bread Ninja (talk) 18:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe we can add some sources to it. NewYorkStyledCheesecakes! (talk) 01:42, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I doubt there's any source to it, the sources were all based someone's perspective. And no one really questioned whether she was major or not. In some areas of this, it seemed like a section for fans, which makes it similar to a blog.Bread Ninja (talk) 15:30, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * With regard to rank, during the Daidoh Incident (SAC), and in subsequent appearances (2nd GiG), Kusanagi wears a JGSDF uniform with Major's epaulettes. Others have noted this, what say you gentlemen ?--Deepshark (talk) 00:40, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Show us that it has. you can't just say "others have noted this" we need someone credible, not fans.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:47, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Refs we might be able to use
Guess ill add refs here because i m not that good at using them to their full extent. Just found one only. oh well...hopefully more will come soon.Lucia Black (talk) 05:56, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 

Could we use a different image?
I know fanservice is part of the franchise - especially in the television series' - but all things considered couldn't we use a less sexualized image at the top of this entry?

This is what is there now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ghost_in_the_Shell_S.A.C._2nd_GIG_Motoko_Kusanagi.png

Something a bit less overtly sexualized would probably be preferable, and more in keeping with her character.

--Ilnyckyj (talk) 03:11, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

This earlier photo is probably better, though something that shows her in a more martial role would probably be more reflective of the character: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/3/3f/20130312132512!Ghost_in_the_Shell_S.A.C._2nd_GIG_Motoko_Kusanagi.png

--Ilnyckyj (talk) 03:19, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Its unnecessarily obscene. I have no problem with a full body image, but not like this.Lucia Black (talk) 04:01, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Reverted it. That image is more likely to violate fair use terms and has questionable copyright status. And the picture is inappropriate for a bio page. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 04:49, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Funny that you call it "sexualized" and not "reflective of the character", while all sorts of media are full of her being "sexualized" and Shirow himself even drew her full naked and engaged in explicit sex in the original manga. Way to misunderstand the character. It's not "fanservice", it's from the DVD cover. And you even call it "unnecessarily obscene", forgetting that Wikipedia is not censored. She might be a "slut", but it's not a shame. --Niemti (talk) 07:40, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * But these notions were never fully noted to the degree to be illustrated in the lead. She's also noted to be a strong and mysterious character but that's not really the point. Also that image appears to be from the PSP game if I'm not mistaken. The problem is only seeing her backside interfering from getting a clear illustration of the character. It's best we use a better and clearer image rather than just illustrate a character's sexuality. Just because a character has certain aspects doesn't mean the lead image has to illustrate those aspects. The lead is there to help identify the character. If you find sources analising her sexual appeal enough to have its own paragraph, then you would be able to put such an image in that section to illustrate it.Lucia Black (talk) 09:49, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The PSP only in the export version, in JP she shows boobs instead. Motoko's very much a "slut", as defined in "slum shaming" (dresses like that every day to work in national security, actually chose to have an artifictial body like that too), but also in having sex with multiple partners (and even at the same time). --Niemti (talk) 11:08, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

You know you're pushing original research. And you know her sexuality isn't her biggest aspect. Manga highlighted it about twice (once in gits and gits2:MMI). SAC hardly ever. And if you think what she wear's is considered "slutty", then you should have no problem finding a similar image. An image where we could see her from head to toe and not making odd poses that make it difficult to distinguish her. You know I'm right.Lucia Black (talk) 18:12, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Really? Let's read the article.

Motoko Kusanagi was well received by media. In 1996, The San Francisco Chronicle stated that she "sports the body of a Baywatch babe, the face of a beauty queen and the soul of a machine. She may frequently be topless, but she's tough." In 2008, UGO included this "one perfect cybernetic babe" among the 75 "Top Animated Hotties", adding that she should be played in the live-action film by Kate Beckinsale who "doesn't have the impressive bust, but that's what CG is for." Motoko ranked #13 in IGN's list of the top anime characters of all time in 2009, commenting that "though she may be cool, professional, and mostly artificial, she's unquestionably human, and following her adventures through Ghost in the Shell was never less than fascinating."

SAC Motoko chooses to not wear any pants and to shows her butt to the world while at duty most of the time (and her designers chose her to be that way). I don't know about, say, the FBI agents who dress this way? Well, unless they're undercover and pretending to be hookers. In the original work (the manga), her creator Shirow Masamune drew her not just full naked (the film had it too) but also getting the hell fingered out of her and ejaculating out of her cyborg vagina. And now, suddenly her butt is being "sexualized", "unnecessarily obscene" and even "original research". Haha. --Niemti (talk) 18:47, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * That goes well in reception, but no full analysis of her sex appeal. I've read the manga (yes the uncensored 2nd edition) and I know what you're referring to. But still OR. Yes she has that aspect anout her, but several others as well. You fail to realize that what she wears in public is considered "normal" in that series. In the manga several other women dressed similar to her.


 * But please, continue to ignore the fact that the image is not well suited for a lead. A standard pose will do fine. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.Lucia Black (talk) 18:59, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * It's just Motoko's character. And yes, everyone can see "several" other women (un)dressed like her, in this very page, and doing a cybersex so much better than any nerd ever did in our world. Now, the article has no character analysis whatsoever, because the article is shitty. And yet it's the least shitty of all GitS character articles (besides, I don't think the other ones should even exist separately, except Batou's and even that not at this point - which is why I tagged them all for notability and merging months ago). --Niemti (talk) 19:48, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * It's part of her character, not the whole. And no, I'm referring to other chapters where other women dress in that odd lingerie style. And if this article has no analysis section, then why are you defending something you know you're gonna lose? What's wrong with looking for a full body image where we can see her front side? If her outfit is provocative as you claim, a different full body image shouldn't be a problem.Lucia Black (talk) 20:05, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Wow - a lot of talk arose because of my original comment.

I just thought Motoko Kusanagi was actually quite an interesting character, but that the image on her Wikipedia page is pretty embarrassing. She basically never wears anything this revealing in either film or either TV series. Given that she is basically a soldier, it might make sense to have her portrayed here in military garb, or at least in clothing consistent with a military officer in standard civilian clothing.

Best wishes to you all,

Ilnyckyj (talk) 02:55, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * her outfit isn't the issue. That's her most common attire in Stand Alone Complex. However, the pose doesn't allow us to get a clear view of the character and her pose is just too provocative than necessary to be used in the infobox.Lucia Black (talk) 04:11, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Just as an example, here is a still from GITS SAC that shows Major Kusanagi in a more dignified position:

http://www.sindark.com/transfer/LuciaBlack/mk.jpg

"That's her most common attire in Stand Alone Complex"

I don't know how to evaluate this statement, except maybe to watch the whole television series again and count the number of appearances in different costumes. I dare say there aren't too many scenes where she points a gun at the 'camera' while wearing high pink socks and underwear of this kind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ghost_in_the_Shell_S.A.C._2nd_GIG_Motoko_Kusanagi.png

Ilnyckyj (talk) 04:38, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Here is another option: http://www.sindark.com/transfer/LuciaBlack/mk2.jpg

Ilnyckyj (talk) 04:49, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * That attire is the most common out of all. I doubt you take me seriously, so if you trully doubt me, find out for yourself and "count" them all. More commonly seen in the first season, in S.A.C. 2nd Gig she does where more soldier-like outfit but that's about it. And the current image we have is fine if its only going to capture a part of her and not a fullbody image. In fact, I think anime&manga articles should be encouraged to follow that trend.Lucia Black (talk) 04:57, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Lucia, don't make a fuss. Niemti's actions violate the NFCC parameters and policy, the image uploaded was not a screenshot and was not an edit of the original. Niemti knows that new images need to be uploaded through the wizard and tagged correctly. Procedurally, Niemti's uploads should be stripped out. Consensus for changing it to that image is not going to happen either it seems. Any image upload to change should be a new upload will the proper steps completed included the suggested ones here. The reason? If the image changes the description and rational may change and changes that render new images should probably be given their own uploads. And Niemti's upload is not "Derived from a digital capture of a single frame in an anime episode in which the character appears...". So it is not to replace that file. Best I can tell its related to promotional movie release, but the items in that are combined with a Tachikoma in the Russian language DVD cover of SAC which may be a fake, and I see another version from some digital magazine (CV possibility) and the rest are tied to torrent sites and stuff. Either way, I'm not going to agree to having a possible magazine source be credited as a 'screenshot' much less detail the proper source of it. Niemti, don't change it again. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:39, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

There's no fuss. All I'm saying that maybe a full-body image would be better than the one we have now. Multiple artbooks have been released with several scans out there. I don't think it would be an issue to use such image. Plus, although you were the one who reverted, consensus' reason was for unnecessary provocative, and I'm well aware wikipedia is not a censorship, doesn't mean we have to expose one trait for a character. Especially the infobox image, in which should be used to help identify the character.Lucia Black (talk) 06:08, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * A new upload needs a new rational and it should not be over the existing one, that's all. While there are better images they should have their own uploads. That's my stance, if you can successfully argue a key main point or criteria the other aspects need not even be discussed for most matters. Whether or not you agreed with the image, the way in which it replaced the current one and did not deal with the rational, it was immediately wrong. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 14:06, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Doesn't sound like an issue. Just find a new image that meets rationale and upload it in a separate file.Lucia Black (talk) 18:15, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

BRD violation
Lucia Black is engaging in edit warring to removed sourced content from Wikipedia. While the prose may be disagreeable, the content is important and verifiable with a type of inline citation. It's inclusion is important to the context of the character in the media. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:36, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

My edit counts as the "revert". the rest is considered "bold edit". which per status quo qould mean that my revert stays until the discussion is over. Also note that it only cites episodes vaguely, and most of it is still based on Original research. so its not as if i'm reverting atual primary or secondary sources that provide a clear distinction of her personality. most of this is user analysis, which is why i reverted. and adding a "variations" section would mean that the info sourced from SAC would have to go there, and keeping the original design by Masamune shirow aloneLucia Black (talk) 05:39, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Overcategorization
There're quite a few categories on this page that overlap other categories.


 * "Fictional majors", "Fictional military personnel", "Fictional police officers", "Fictional soldiers", "Fictional mercenaries", "Fictional super soldiers", and "Fictional women soldiers and warriors".


 * "Fictional technopaths" and "Fictional hackers".


 * "Fictional cyborgs" and "Fictional gynoids".

"Fictional intellectuals" might need a bit more rationale. Related to that, "Fictional people with eidetic memory" just seems to be a direct result of her being part of "Fictional cyborgs".

Opencooper (talk) 00:47, 29 April 2015 (UTC)