Talk:Movement for the Survival of the Ogoni People

NPOV?
Just passing through, but this seems very much in the favor of the Ogoni movement. It looks to be in serious need of editing for a more neutral account. 71.194.163.223 15:24, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I just noticed that as well. This reads like a sympathy piece. The article also needs better refs, and more of them. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Nonsense -it consists of hard facts, not opinions of sympathy, it is adequately in the proper encyclopaedic style. You sound like you work for Shell! I'm referring this to an editor to get the neutrality disputed tag removed. --Kester ratcliff (talk) 16:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello, all. The article can definitely be improved by going to some reliable NEWS sources for information, rather than simply to sources that are sympathetic to the Ogonis. Try http://news.google.com/news?client=safari&rls=en&q=ogoni&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wn, and you will find other places for information. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 08:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

As this issue is still here, I have retagged this article for the NPOV and various other issues. I might actually do something myself to fix this article, as it has been for years in this shape. Ceosad (talk) 15:35, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

No one is actually adding content nor correcting structure of the article. I've done so in the introduction paragraph. After reading the talk there seems to be discrepancies as to the WHAT the page is about. It isn't about the Ogoni People. But about MSOP which represents the Ogoni People and not oil companies. I will take the suggestion of reporting deconstruction of the page for commercial purposes. Using Google News doesn't make any sense as an aggregated source when the citation MSOP is referenced. A more definitive source would be an African News Service for on the ground reporting of issues or a rights group. [User talk:VersoArts] 2:03 12 December 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by VersoArts (talk • contribs)
 * Hi VersoArts! It's good to identify problems first before we fix them. The most pressing issue in my mind is the lack of reliable sources. It doesn't matter if the information is correct, incorrect, neutral or non-neutral, if it's unsourced. All unsourced information should be either found reliable sources for, or deleted. If you want to help with this page, please find reliable sources from either Google News, as suggested above, or Africa News Service, as you suggest, whichever yields higher quality sources. If the sources are reliable and are used correctly, the information should be reliable and neutral too. This is why I suggest starting with sources. Finnusertop (talk &#124; guestbook &#124; contribs) 14:40, 12 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you for helping VersoArts! I am currently trying to find out the unsourced information from the article, by checking the sources, so that the article can be partially rewritten. I have already tried to split the article to make it slightly easier to read and edit. Some relevant information and references could be copied from the articles of Ogoni Nine and Ken Saro-Wiwa. Ceosad (talk) 20:20, 12 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Finnusertop I noticed that the penalties to the article of it having a limited scope of interest and that there was TOO MUCH intricate detail : have been removed. This is welcomed.
 * So with this point, I am identifying the penalties of:
 * 1. "This article is outdated. (December 2014)"
 * and
 * 2."The neutrality of this article is disputed. (December 2014)"
 * These two unexplained classifications at the onset sets the subsequent information in doubt. If it can't be determined presently why it is deemed outdated and/or what is the determining bias that renders it as not neutral, these penalty items should also be removed to move the document article forward. Ceosad Thanks for your help. I don't think the problem is that it is unsourced as much as it is a problem with the placement of citations and attributions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VersoArts (talk • contribs) 21:01, 12 December 2014 (UTC)


 * The intricate detail issue was indeed an over-reaction from my part, so I removed it.


 * 1. I added the issue about being outdated due to the fact that this article does not detail MOSOP's recent activities. They most likely have done something important and notable after 1996. For instance, the Wiwa v. Royal Dutch Shell Co. lawsuits were finally resolved in 2009. This case is closely related to the MOSOP and its activities. There has probably been other kind of progress too.


 * 2. Regarding the NPOV issue, I think the major issue is that this article relies on the first-hand sources rather than respected third-party sources. These Wikipedia policies came to my mind: WP:RELIABLE, WP:VERIFY and most notably WP:THIRDPARTY.


 * I agree that the lack of citations and attributions is a big issue in the article. I will soon, hopefully tonight, tag all the missing inline citations and try to find the relevant sources from the references we have, after doing that. Adding new references will help in this, and in the NPOV issues too. These NPOV issues should be however, resolved before adding too much new content, I think. Ceosad (talk) 21:48, 12 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Just on a casual look, there are lots of developments of the MSOP so much that it is overwhelming to catch up with the developments that have led to independence of the Ogani People and recognition at the UN. This "edit" is becoming a major project. BUT, could some of the intricate detail or referral links be put into an WP:INFOBOX as described. If this seems like a solution, I wouldn't have a problem doing the markup. Ceosad | VersoArts (talk) 23:35, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Infobox

 * Infobox would be nice to have, and it would help the structure of the article. Finnusertop has done a few of them, and did one for the article I wrote together with him. He can probably help in this case too. Ceosad (talk) 23:44, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I have added an infobox, please feel free to fill in any missing details ( see here for help). However, an infobox is not an alternative to inline citations within the article body. In fact, in the infobox, we should mostly include facts that have already been cited in the article body. In that case, repeating the citation in the infobox is not necessary. See Help:Infobox and WP:INFOBOXREF. Finnusertop (talk &#124; guestbook &#124; contribs) 00:11, 13 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Putting together a template with operators would be simples. There is a logo for MSOP so I would need guidelines of adding it to Wikimedia, if this is needed, and to the article itself. As far as my research goes I have not found one with a CC attribute. Ceosad, Finnusertop Here is an example of an organizational infobox that you may be familiar with, Finn. [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America]. There are others to take your pick from. [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_infoboxes] VersoArts (talk) 00:25, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Another example: [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Union] Ceosad, Finnusertop | VersoArts (talk) 00:28, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I have opted for the general Infobox organization, it should do well. As for a logo it doesn't have to be licensed CC, because Wikipedia allows limited fair use of copyrighted material. The policy is long and technical, but I've done this before; if you can provide me with the logo I can upload it with the correct procedure. Finnusertop (talk &#124; guestbook &#124; contribs) 00:35, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
 * @Ceosad There are two examples I've found of the same cropped picture. http://www.universalreporters247.com/2014/01/stay-away-from-ogoni-land-mosop-warns.html: IMG SRC: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PSLl68XRl4Q/UoETJSJRROI/AAAAAAAADgM/SOmWmSwPnh0/s1600/302701_106363896194209_47582873_n.jpg and http://www.tribune.com.ng/images/mosop-logo.jpg. The cropping is terrible to the right, though. VersoArts (talk) 00:49, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll go forward with original graphics of the emblem as a backup. Ceosad. Finnusertop | VersoArts (talk) 01:08, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Tag Removal
Since there is a notice tag announcing a major restructuring, the first item regarding copyediting issues will be removed. VersoArts (talk) 21:10, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Date Format
@ Xanthomelanoussprog If you change the date format in one area of the body of the article. Aren't those dates in need of change elsewhere? Why not ask for a consensus as to where the event took place. These edits without discussion are a means of destroying the article. VersoArts (talk) 11:19, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I find the date format day-month-year better myself, as the numbers for the day and year are separated by the letters for the month. This is in accordance with MOS. You mean when the event took place, not where the event took place? 22 December 2014 is the same date as December 22, 2014. The article should be a means of clearly and concisely express ing a narrative to the reader; at the moment it doesn't do that. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 12:05, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * @ Xanthomelanoussprog I understand that formatting and the uses of it. But my question was to the entire body specifically when there will be a timeline used categorized by the month. I know people editing aren't concerned with the issue of the timeline inclusion. But it's a standard block of information used when talking about the Ogoni Movement. When I was saying WHERE I meant what is the current formatting, not personal preference, but for Africa. But I found an Endian here on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country VersoArts (talk) 15:04, 23 December 2014 (UTC) | VersoArts (talk) 17:12, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
 * @ Xanthomelanoussprog Date format reverted back to synching of body of timeline. Edits based on WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT aren't valid. VersoArts (talk) 21:04, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
 * @VersoArts You reverted the date format to synch it with a "body of timeline" which you then deleted? Now you've got a date format which doesn't agree with the date format you researched as being appropriate "for Africa". Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 11:10, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Paragraph breaks in Lists
@Bgwhite I would like to know which Markup you say isn't being followed. When you make changes prove your edit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Lists#Paragraphs_and_other_breaks

Use of edit summaries in disputes
WP:REVTALK

Proper use of edit summaries is critical to resolving content disputes. Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit, especially if it could be controversial. If the edit involves reverting previous changes, it should be marked as a revert ("rv") in the edit summary.

Avoid using edit summaries to carry on debates or negotiation over the content or to express opinions of the other users involved. This creates an atmosphere where the only way to carry on discussion is to revert other editors! If you notice this happening, start a section on the talk page and place your comments there. This keeps discussions and debates away from the article page itself. For example:

reverted edits by User:Example, see talk for rationale

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary#Use_of_edit_summaries_in_disputes VersoArts (talk) 04:50, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

@The Banner DYK wikicode is Cascading Style Sheet. And wikitext is hypertext? VersoArts (talk) 08:03, 26 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Start reading Manual of Style/Lists The Banner talk 12:49, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Timeline removals
As part of my major rewrite of this article, I removed large sections of the timeline that are uncited and seem excessively detailed. Placing them here in case there's something useful:

1993
 * February 15–16, 18 – Shell International advisors meet with the Shell Petroleum Development Company (SPDC) in London and the Hague to consider strategies for countering the "possibility that internationally organized protest could develop" over Shell's activities in Ogoni.
 * April 18 – Ken Saro-Wiwa, chairman of the resistance group "Movement for the Survival of the Ogoni People (MOSOP)", is held by the Nigerian State Security Service at Port Harcourt Airport for 16 hours without charges, is released, but then arrested 5 days later.
 * April 30 – Construction work on Shell's Rumuekpe-Bomu Pipeline destroys freshly planted Ogoni farmland sparking a peaceful demonstration of approximately 10,000 Ogoni villagers. Nigerian Federal government soldiers open fire on the crowd of demonstrators, wounding at least 10.
 * May 1 – Mass demonstrations along Bori Road against the pipeline construction continue. Shell decides to withdraw American workers and equipment.
 * May 3 – Agbarator Otu is shot and killed by members of the Nigerian military while protesting work on the pipeline at Nonwa.
 * May 16 – Saro-Wiwa has his passport seized while trying to leave for London.
 * May 18 – Amnesty International issues an Urgent Action concerning the extra judicial killing of Otu and the Nigerian government's use of force against peaceful Ogoni protests.
 * May 24 – Saro-Wiwa begins a European tour and succeeds in drawing attention to the struggle of the Ogoni people. Shell responds to the international attention and is "happy to discuss these matters further...."
 * June A ruptured pipeline begins to spray oil in Bunu Tai, Ogoni land. Forty days later, the flow is yet to be stopped. Saro-Wiwa is prevented from traveling to the UN conference in Vienna by Nigerian SSS, and his passport is seized.
 * June 21 – Saro-Wiwa and other MOSOP officials are arrested.
 * June 22 – Ogoni people march in Bori, in protest against MOSOP arrests. In reaction, Federal government soldiers are moved from Port Harcourt and stationed in Bori. Indiscriminate beatings and arrests of Ogoni people by "heavy[ily] armed and unfriendly Nigerian soldiers and police" are frequent.
 * June 30 – Amnesty International issues a Fast Action concerning Saro-Wiwa.
 * Mid-July – Saro-Wiwa is moved to a hospital and later released on bail, but charges still stand.
 * August 31 – MOSOP leaders are summoned to Abuja for a meeting with the Interim government, installed by former head of state Babangida after the annulment of the June 12 election results. This is the first time that the Nigerian government officially discussed the situation in Ogoniland with MOSOP.
 * Beginning September – Saro-Wiwa, Senator Birabi, and representatives of the Rivers State Security Council visit the destroyed village of Kaa and urge Governor Ada George to take measures to curb Andoni-Ogoni violence. Meetings are arranged between Andoni and Ogoni leaders and government representatives. This leads to the creation of a Peace Committee, headed by Professor Claude Ake.
 * September 15 – General Sani Abacha promises Saro-Wiwa that Federal troops will be sent to Ogoniland to help curb Andoni-Ogoni violence.
 * October 6 – A Peace Agreement is signed concerning the Ogoni-Andoni troubles, but without the signature of Saro-Wiwa, or the "consultation of the communities involved".
 * October 17 – An oil spill at Korokoro oil fields in Ogoni, operated by Shell. Baritonle Kpormon is shot dead at a checkpoint in Bori by a Federal soldier who has been sent to ensure peace at the Ogoni-Andoni border; however Bori is not at the border. A MOSOP Steering Committee meeting accepts the Peace Agreement but for two paragraphs, and calls for a Judicial Commission of Inquiry to be installed by the Federal government.
 * October 19 – Professor Ake, chairman of the Peace Conference, send a letter to Governor Ada George, stating that he does not agree with the Peace Agreement. According to him, it was drafted in haste and without proper consultation of the communities involved.
 * October 23 – Two fire trucks from SPDC are seized at Korokoro by local inhabitants.
 * October 25 – Three Ogoni men are shot at Korokoro oil fields by Federal government soldiers accompanying Shell workers who went back to retrieve the fire trucks. One man dies (Uebari Nna), and two are wounded (Pal Sunday and Mboo Ndike).
 * November 17 – The interim government resigns. General Abacha becomes the new Nigerian head of state.
 * December 13 – Governor Ada George is replaced by Lt. Col. Dauda Komo. Violent clashes between Ogoni and Okirika over crowded land at waterfronts, Port Harcourt. Over 90 people are reported dead, many more wounded.
 * December 28 – Probably to prevent the start of the Ogoni Week, MOSOP leaders Dr. Owen Wiwa and Ledum Mitee, a lawyer, are arrested without being charged. The Ogoni Assembly is dispersed by Nigerian soldiers. Lt. Col. Komo states that Ogoni Week was aborted because MOSOP did not apply for a permit.

1994


 * January 2 – Saro-Wiwa is placed under house arrest.
 * January 4 – Owen Wiwa and Ledum are released and Saro-Wiwa's house arrest is lifted.
 * January 11 – A seven-member Commission of Inquiry is installed by the Rivers State government to investigate Ogoni-Okirika clashes, and starts public sittings in Port Harcourt.
 * January 20 – A three-member ministerial team starts a two-day tour of Rivers State to investigate the hostilities between the communities there, as part of a general inquiry of community clashes. The Nigerian government is especially worried about troubles in oil-producing areas.
 * January 21 – A $500 million contract is signed in Port Harcourt between Shell Nigeria and ABB Global Engineering UK, allowing the latter to collect gas from 10 flow stations in Rivers State.
 * January 24 – The three major oil companies in Port Harcourt estimate to have lost over $200 million during 1993, due to "unfavorable conditions in their areas of operation", and call for urgent measures to combat the situation.
 * April – A memo was sent from Komo to Okuntimo, entitled "Restoration of Law and Order in Ogoniland" It gave details for an extensive military presence in Ogoni, drawing resources from the army, air force, navy, and police, including both the Mobile Police Force and conventional units. In a move meant to facilitate the reopening of oil installations, one of the missions of this operation was to ensure that those "carrying out business ventures ... within Ogoniland are not molested". Saro-Wiwa, commenting on the memo above, said: "This is it – they are going to arrest us all and execute us. All for Shell." The following month Okuntimo sent a "restricted" memo back to Komo remarking, "Shell operations still impossible unless ruthless military operations are undertaken for smooth economic activities to commence." To counter this, Okuntimo recommended: "Wasting operations during MOSOP and other gatherings making constant military presence justifiable."
 * Beginning April – A small conflict between Ogoni and Okoloma leads to serious clashes; Lt. Col. Komo is reported to have said that soldiers have been directed to deal with aggressive communities, and if necessary shoot trouble makers. Fifteen Ogoni people are arrested without being charged, including Dr. Wiwa.

Larataguera (talk) 16:13, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Next steps
I hope I've dramatically improved this article in the last few days. Remaining tasks are to clarify the element of Ogoni-Andoni violence. I've left two citations in that section that should be useful there. Also, there is probably room for update of more recent developments. I don't think I'm going to tackle this any time very soon, so I hope someone else will. Larataguera (talk) 16:42, 12 November 2022 (UTC)


 * also a section on the movement's wider influence Larataguera (talk) 16:47, 12 November 2022 (UTC)