Talk:Mr. Robot/Archive 2

Language
What language is used by Tyrell Wellick and his wife? No mention of it in the text.98.162.136.248 (talk) 05:25, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Swedish and Danish. He is speaking Swedish and she is speaking Danish — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.10.9.18 (talk) 17:14, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 25 September 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Move. Consensus is that this is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Cúchullain t/ c 14:55, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

– TV series is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, with respect to usage and long-term significance (critical acclaim, Best Drama Actor Emmy winner with other Emmy nominations, etc). 1,100,000+ pageviews for TV series in last 6 months vs. 1900 views for "Mr. Robot (video game)" and 1400 for "Mr. Robot and His Robot Factory." Disambiguation page for those other uses. Wikipedical (talk) 16:45, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Mr. Robot (TV series) → Mr. Robot
 * Mr. Robot → Mr. Robot (disambiguation)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). JE98 (talk) 17:29, 25 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Better discuss this one first. JE98 (talk) 17:29, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Support No contest noted on the technical page. No objection to the move. Wikipedical's data tell the tale. -- -- Dr. Margi   ✉  17:34, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose the name could re-appear in different contexts.. even if there's none we know of or on wikipedia already, i'd be surprised if other uses don't already exists (e.g. characters), and could appear (e.g. what about 5,10 years from now?) MfortyoneA (talk) 22:58, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
 * We can adjust in 5 or 10 years if the need arises. Nothing is cast in bronze. -- -- Dr. Margi   ✉  23:01, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
 * That's an unreasonable hypothetical that could be used to oppose any and every PRIMARYTOPIC requested move. The TV series is far and away the most notable and searched page for the title. What "could" should not be significant.  --  Wikipedical (talk) 01:39, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I've seen issues linger. Can't we just be more specific, then there's no need to ever change it.. the information captured in this moment in time can endure, and people can put maintenance effort into other more productive issues. I would bet we can find other 'Mr Robot' characters if we dig through all the games comics short stories.. especially given that in the show itself, 'Mr Robot' is a fictional store name (i.e. concocted to look like a viable name for an 80s/90s store..) MfortyoneA (talk) 10:21, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * https://www.jambes.co.uk/products/mr-robot
 * You can find as many obscure references to the term as you want, but it doesn't sound like you're familiar with or have read WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. With respect to usage and significance, the TV series is without question the most notable and searched article. Other references you can dig out can surely be noted at the disambiguation page. --  Wikipedical (talk) 13:38, 26 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Support - None of the other things titled Mr. Robot have nearly as much significance, and they're all other works of fiction.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 02:28, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose this wasn't really an uncontroversial move. The situation at the moment is fine. Although since the series has already been going some time there wouldn't be the painful task of having to dab every mention of it because (TV series) would still be hardwired in all the inter-article links and templates, removing (TV series) is not going to benefit those looking for less WP:RECENT Mr Robots. It's one of those situations where inconveniencing a smaller number of readers has to be balanced against marginal (or none) improvement for those already finding the TV series. Leave as is. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:39, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I see no argument here specific to this topic. So you oppose the concept of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC completely? --SubSeven (talk) 01:22, 27 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Support* per nom. This seems like a clear instance of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for usage. Highly unlikely any other work or usage will ever take this name due to notoriety. --Netoholic @ 12:04, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose Per previous requested move at Talk:Mr. Robot (TV series)/Archive 1 --  Alex TW 13:36, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * So you're opposing a move now based on the same no-longer applicable rationale (i.e. WP:RECENTISM) that was put forth eight episodes into the first season, although you supported that move at the time, making no allowances for the fact the show is entering its third season, has grown enormously in visibility and in its media profile, much less considering the data provided by Wikipedical above? Yeah, that makes sense.  -- -- Dr. Margi   ✉  18:47, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Naturally you had a snipey comment to reply to me with. Pageviews do not dictate a primary topic. Unfortunate that you do not know that. Yeah, that makes sense. --  Alex TW 22:37, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, Alex. You supported that move request in 2015, agreeing with Drmargi that Google results established the series as the primary topic. Do you believe, after Emmy wins and additional critical acclaim, that the series is no longer the primary topic?  Just clarifying, since the result of that move request shouldn't have much sway  with new facts on that determination today.  --  Wikipedical (talk) 23:11, 26 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Support a blindingly clear cut case of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. A popular, multiple award-winning television show vs. utterly obscure topics.  Why do these obvious encyclopedia-improving moves always get stonewalled by people who clearly aren't even reading the guidelines.   --SubSeven (talk) 01:18, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Support, an overwhelming primary topic by an order of magnitude. &mdash;Xezbeth (talk) 10:43, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Support. Traffic stats, awards, etc. seem sufficient in this case to support the series as sufficiently significant to be primary. ╠╣uw [ talk ]  17:50, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Support. A clear case of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, in a situation extremely similar to last year's move of Black Mirror. Manutaust (talk) 13:03, 29 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Why using 'CyberSecurity Company' where 'Network Computer security Company' may be used ?
'CyberSecurity Company' is a fictive name, it should be renamed to 'Network Computer Security Company'. Comments welcome. --Dadu (talk) 04:36, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The first line of the Computer security article states "Computer security, also known as cyber security or IT security..." Based on that, "CyberSecurity Company" seems a reasonable term to use, is simpler than "Network Computer security Company", and is commonly understood.  I don't see any reason for change.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:39, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Logos and typefaces used in the tv show
Due to the tv show the typeface used for the shows title has become popular; there are numerous downloadable fan made versions of the typeface available online. I'm sure there are fans of the show that would want to know info about the typeface used in the shows title, so I suggest this info be added to the mr robot wiki page as readers may want to know such info plus may also be interested to read how the typeface mimics console company SEGA's logo. They may also be interested to read about how other fictional logos in the tv show mimic real life company logos.

Anybody considering adding such content to the mr robot wiki page may be interested in this link which talks of the logos & typefaces used on mr robot - https://www.beutlerink.com/blog/no-logo-the-fictional-brands-of-mr-robot

PS, I'll defer from making any such content changes to the mr robot wiki page due to the fact my grammar sux HardeeHar (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Started on a characters list, help appreciated!
Hi everyone, I just wanted to direct people to User:Sock/Mr. Robot, where I'm working on a character list for the series to remove the clutter in the cast section on the main article. Any help would be appreciated! Sock  ( tock talk)  14:07, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Question about citation
There is currently a citation error on the page (duplicate citations).

If both citations refer to the same web page but retrieved at a different time, does that count as two different references or the same reference? Aaron Stone (talk) 21:46, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Same reference, you just use the later access-date. However, one Futon source was transcluded from the series overview at List of Mr. Robot episodes, so I've gone ahead and fixed it. -- / Alex /21  21:49, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Should Science fiction be added as a genre?
After the episode "eXit" there appears to be a strong case. But how do we know the "alternate reality" isn't just something inside Elliots mind? similar to how in Season 2 they had that big reveal that Elliot was in jail the entire time? Something seemed off when the "alternate" Elliot was seeing "F Corp" as "E Corp" in brief flashs in the Allsafe offices. Esuka (talk) 21:11, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
 * It's too early to tell, we have no idea how this will actually play out over the course of the last two episodes. We need to wait and of course, provide reliable sources citing the genre, if it happens to be the case. Drovethrughosts (talk) 21:18, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Adding it now requires an assumption about the nature of the ending, and that's WP:OR. it will keep until we see the ending. -- -- Dr. Margi   ✉  02:23, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Cast
They are listed as main cast because they are credited in the show as main cast, thus we must list them as so here. -- / Alex /21  06:24, 18 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Currently in a dispute regarding whether Ashleie Atkinson and Elliot Villar should be listed as main characters.


 * * Elliot Villar appeared in 10 of total 46 episodes. (Season 1 and 4)
 * * Ashlie Atkinson appeared in 5 of total 46 episodes. (Season 4)


 * By this logic, Michael Gill and Frankie Shaw should also be listed as main characters, which they are not. Those who closely followed the show from 2015-2019 should agree that Vera (Elliot Villar) and Janice (Ashlie Atkinson) are not technically main characters. Dwest25 (talk) 06:28, 18 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Also by this logic, Trenton Mobley and Ramiro would be considered main characters, as they all appeared consistently throughout the first 3 seasons. Dwest25 (talk) 06:29, 18 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Also, Joey Badass (Leon) would be considered a main character by this logic. Elliot Villar can make an argument as a main character. Ashlie Atkinson however absolutely should not. Dwest25 (talk) 06:40, 18 January 2020 (UTC)


 * See my above comment. They are listed as main cast because they are credited in the show's opening credits as main cast, thus we must list them as so here. The number of episode they appear in is irrelevant. -- / Alex /21  06:41, 18 January 2020 (UTC)


 * As others have stated (including myself) in the edit summaries: they are listed as main cast because that is how they are credited in the show itself. They are credited in the "starring" billing block with all other main cast, not as guest stars. It's that simple. Episode count is irrelevant and we do not decide who is main cast and who is not; the credits so. Now, please understand that these are Wikipedia guidelines which are followed across all TV-related articles and stop your edit warring. Drovethrughosts (talk) 13:05, 18 January 2020 (UTC)


 * See the posts above mine. I was the first to revert your erroneous edit, for the same reasons as the above.  Billing, not some set of episode counts or other arbitrary rules determine whether an actor is main cast or recurring.  You frequently point to IMDB guidelines, but they are not applicable here.  Please refrain from edit warring.  All that will happen is that you will get yourself blocked and/or the article locked so no one can edit it.  -- -- Dr. Margi   ✉  18:04, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
 * What Dwest is arguing for is called Original Research. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:00, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Reception
A show which apparently glorifies cybercrime, and there are apparently no negative reactions to it? Really? 216.255.171.122 (talk) 21:50, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Apparently there are not. That's what "universal acclaim" means.  Really.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 21:54, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Writing
Dialogs and writing is awesome, especially in the second season. Where should the credits for the authors go? Acting and directing is only one part of the deal. Theking2 (talk) 14:09, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Use of a historic chess game
Season 2 Episode 7 involves the game of chess in a significant way. The last game of Elliot vs Ray is a duplication of the 1910 tournament Roesch vs. Schlage game. That game is well documented and has film-historic relevance because of its previous use in Stanley Kubric’s 2001 film in the Poole vs. Hal 9000 scene. That the game in Mr. Robot is indeed that Roesch vs. Schlage game is a statement of fact that can be verified by anybody by watching Season 2 Episode 7 starting at about minute 18 and comparing the filmed chess board positions against the published game. This is not original research. As such a brief paragraph in this article with a reference to this historic game would be contributing to Wikipedia in a meaningful way, but it was removed by a fellow editor. Comments? Wra2 (talk) 18:36, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Are there any other sources out there for this besides the chessgames.com one that you used? Some1 (talk) 18:52, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The Roesch vs. Schlage game is included in the Caïssabase, the archived MillionBase download from web.archive.org, and the 365chess.com chess databases. It is also listed at Schachsinn.de as a notable game using the Ruy Lopez (a.k.a. Spanish) Opening. Wra2 (talk) 19:50, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the links. I should've been more specific; I meant, are there reliable sources directly connecting the Roesch vs. Schlage game to Mr. Robot? I don't doubt that the episode's chess game was influenced by Roesch vs. Schlage, but we need WP:Reliable sources directly connecting the two in order to satisfy WP:V and WP:NOR ("cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented"). The chessgames.com one seems WP:USERGENERATED. Some1 (talk) 20:36, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Sam Esmail is very active on Twitter. This sounds like the sort of thing he's do; why not tweet and ask him? -- -- Dr. Margi   ✉  21:28, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * That's a decent idea;, if you can't find any reliable sources connecting these two (I googled and only found the chessgames.com one and IMDB trivia), you should Tweet him and ask. Otherwise, there's not much else we can do here without any reliable sources present. Some1 (talk) 21:43, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The strongest reference is the episode itself showing various intermediate positions including the final position of the game with direct views of the chess board, and there is the Roesch vs Schlage game matching all these positions. So there can really be no doubt that they in fact match, and everybody can verify it. In my humble opinion this is analogous to a photo of a house with a blue sky and somebody writing on wikipedia that the sky in the photo is blue, without needing any published references that state that the photo in question indeed has a blue sky. One can simply look at it, it's hard to argue with easily accessible facts. Various chess players have certainly observed and discussed it in this case, besides the chessgames.com reference there's a discussion on chess24.com, and a full discussion of the game of the episode move by move on YouTube: CINEMA SCACCHI 46 - M. Robot 2x07 - Odissea nello Strazio - Roesch vs Schalge (2017). Wra2 (talk) 22:32, 27 December 2020 (UTC)