Talk:Muḥammad ibn Ibrāhīm al-Fazārī

Arab
Muhammad al-Fazari, comes from an arab tribe from Farazi`ah in yemen. Here is a detailed biography of al-farazi in arabic which takes it sources from arabic primary sources written thousands years ago. Notice the sentence " ولد في الكوفة لأسرة عربية أصيلة ينحدر أصلها من فزارة ثم سكنت   الكوفة." which proves my point. There is also an english reference posted in the article. Jidan 15:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * That's simply wrong. The vast majority of sources in English indicate that he was Persian, and the family came from Afghanistan. --Mardavich 16:14, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * From Afghanistan? WHERE is the source????? Jidan 16:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The family tree is now clear to me. The Family tree goes like this: "وبنو فزارة من ذبيان من غطفان" translated: banu fazarah from dhabian from GhaTafan ( غطفان). Ghatafan was an arab adnanite tribe . The source is in arabic though. Jidan 16:39, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Sources saying he was an Arab
Here I quote from the sources I added:
 * 1) Syed: "[al-Fazari] is said to have been the first arab to make an astrolabe"
 * 2) Munson: "It definitely predates 800 when the Arab geographer al-Fazari referred to the kingdom"
 * 3) Montgomery: "[one] of the astrologers consulted on the propitious moment for the foundation of Baghdad was Muhammad ibn Ibraheem al-Fazari, the scion of an ancient Arab family of al-Kufa."
 * 4) Abramovich: "al-fazari, who worked with a scholar from Sind on the translation of the astronmical work, the Sindhind (from Sanskrit. 'perfected'), was of Arab descent."
 * 5) Kumar: "Some of the Arab writers, espically Al Fazari, the writer of Sind-Hind ..."
 * 6) Savage-Smith: "[Ibn al-Amid criticized] the treatise on the use of the armillary sphere by al-Fazari, one of the earliest Arab astronomers".
 * 7) Pingree: "Though this passage is not very illuminating with respect to the contents of al-Fazari's works, we do learn from it that he was of an old Arab family from Kufa..." --Lanov 02:35, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * All Muslims scientists used to be called "Arab", but this is being slowly disregarded within western academia. I am removing the sources that don't use Arab explicitly in an ethnic sense, bur rather in a linguistic/cultural sense. The only sources referring to him as Arab in ethnic sense are Abramovich, Pingree and Montgomery, while most modern sources refer to Fazari as Persian, I am rewording the article accordingly until I can find irrefutable evidence that he was Persian. --Mardavich 04:21, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This was just a test to see your reaction. I still have other sources. You still have false sources in this article and you have to remove them or I will report you. I'm not threatening you in any way, it's just that everything I said about you turned out to be right. As usual you deleted sources because you don't like them, the transl. of Irshad al-Arib fi Ma'rifat al-Adib. Anyone who reads what you wrote above is gonna translate it to "This is my article, you can't do whatever you like with it, even if you have irrefutable evidence like you gave me (Abramovichm Pingree and Montgomery). I will keep on looking and looking and because I did not find any sources I will try to give some false sources every now and then" --Lanov 17:35, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You need to review WP:AGF and WP:Civility,and be respectful of other editors' opinions and comments. --Mardavich 17:49, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Why you want me to AGF on you when you don't AGF on me. I told you before you never see me referring to a well know Persian scientists as Arabs. You reverted my sourced edits couple of time without giving me any reasons (until now). Why you want me to be respectful of other editors' opinions when you are not respectful of my opinions. From WP:AGF "This guideline does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of evidence to the contrary. Actions inconsistent with good faith include repeated vandalism, confirmed malicious sockpuppetry, and lying. Assuming good faith also does not mean that no action by editors should be criticized, but instead that criticism should not be attributed to malice unless there is specific evidence of malice. Editors should not accuse the other side in a conflict of not assuming good faith in the absence of reasonable supporting evidence." --Lanov 18:26, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

He is grandson of the SAHABI Samra ibn Jundub Al-Fazari سمرة بن جندب الفزاري
He was an Arab;he is the grand son of the sahabi سمرة بن جندب الفزاري Sumra ibn Jundub Al-Fazari .Therefore how come he is Persian???!!!. I’ll remove the word Persian from both articles (Him and his father) since thier grand father is well-known as Arab, in addition he is not related to Iran because simply he lived in Iraq.--Aziz1005 17:52, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose merging Ibrāhīm al-Fazārī into Muḥammad ibn Ibrāhīm al-Fazārī. I think the content in Ibrāhīm al-Fazārī can easily be explained in the context of Muḥammad ibn Ibrāhīm al-Fazārī, as modern sources identify that they are likely the same person (despite what earlier sources state). A merger would not cause any article-size or weighting problems in Muḥammad ibn Ibrāhīm al-Fazārī.

The earlier confusion would be discussed in the merged article. Amitchell125 (talk) 06:48, 7 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge – Early sources distinguish between father and son or do not mention the father (here); more modern sources acknowledge the scholarly confusion that exists, or say there was only one person (e.g. here and here). Amitchell125 (talk) 07:03, 7 May 2023 (UTC)