Talk:Muddy Manninen

Notability
Ping User:MSJapan - do you think the subject passes WP:NMUSIC? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 05:22, 19 June 2016 (UTC)


 * In a word, no. The sourcing doesn't support it.  Prior to being with Wishbone Ash, he wasn't in any band that was notable - being a supporting act for a notable band is not in itself notable.  As a matter of general significant coverage per criterion #1, even though he's in Wishbone Ash now, he has no coverage aside from the bio that's on the band website, which seems to also take care of anything tour-related in #4.  I'd also contend he's in Wishbone Ash because he replaced somebody he personally knew (as that's not disputed), so I think that dilutes the notability of joining a notable band.  The subject can't be notable as a producer, because he only produced an album for a band he was a member of (thus not independent).


 * I'd also consider this a "revival" of Wishbone Ash - this incarnation of the band only has one original member of the band (this failing 6), it primarily releases compilation and live albums independently on NN labels, and isn't charting at all - of the 15 albums since 2004 (when Manninen joined), only 4 of them are studio albums, and not a single one has charted (see Wishbone Ash discography). Therefore, I feel that the release criteria (2,3,and 5) aren't met.  Manninen isn't considered representative of the instrument or genre, has won no awards, had no rotation placement, and hasn't been interviewed extensively, so that's 7-12 out.  I understand that WP:NTEMP might disagree as far as the "revival aspect" of the band goes, but that's only one criterion, and Manninen was not involved with their indisputably notable releases.  NMUSIC says may be notable if they meet one of the criteria, not is.  Most "notable" musicians (even session players) are going to meet more than one of these criteria without stretching for it, and this subject does not.  As much as I hate to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, even Mark St. John, who was only in KISS for six months, met the ensemble criteria, did the major tour, and played on a platinum-selling album that charted #20 on Billboard. There shouldn't be a struggle to meet the criteria. MSJapan (talk) 16:16, 19 June 2016 (UTC)