Talk:Mudra

Broken link
This external link is broken: http://www.livemaster.org/archive/KujiIn_front_low.wmv &#123;&#123;user Birmingham, Alabama}} 20:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed Content
There was a large, unattributed excerpt from a webpage that was sloppily pasted into the article. I got rid of it. Was this the right thing to do? Sengge 20:21, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Yup. Melchoir 09:14, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

the articles should be seperated
the music article and the religious one should be seperate.
 * Good call. Done. Sengge 02:59, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Abhisheka mudra?
Could someone knowledgeable have a look at Image:VairochanaMingCopper.jpg? The plaque in the museum says "Vairochana is seated with his hands in the gesture of anointing (abhisheka mudra)." There is only confusing information online and none here; an explanation would be great. Melchoir 00:47, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Hand seals used in other religions and disciplines
I heard that this kind of hand seals are used in many other areas, e.g. these are used in Buddhism, Taoism, Ninjutsu etc. The article should probably expand on these areas. ,   Kowloonese 01:19, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe your last link is about Naruto, which uses fact and fiction about ninjustu. I am not sure if mudras (does that plural work?) really are used, but I would research real ninjutsu. Best not to mix up the facts... 69.192.62.63 00:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Mudra with the body?
I found exist these other mudras (Ashvini Mudra, Maha Mudra, Viparitakarani Mudra, Yoga Mudra), they involve the use of the entire body but there is no mention of them in the article; is there someone that can explain it? I know almost nothing about yoga or Hinduism.--Dia^ 09:22, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * There are scores, if not hundreds, of other mudras. See the external links. I have flagged the list as incomplete.--Shantavira 18:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Request: a call to Wikikin to populate a section of "Cross-cultural correlates" with...
An informing cross-cultural correlate to Mudra is evidenced in the technique of anchoring within Neuro-linguistic programming... the correlation is intuitive and pointed...deixis: martial arts discourse may furnish a marriage of anchoring with mudra.

Count ur blessings! B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 17:46, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * "the correlation is intuitive..." - that's called original research and is not permitted. You must find someone who has written about the correlation and cite them. IPSOS (talk) 17:49, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The correlation is patently apparent. Like the relationship between breath, food and life.

B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 05:03, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * According to Verifiability "Editors adding or restoring material that has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, or quotations, must provide a reliable published source, or the material may be removed." Can you find a WP:RS that supports the point you are trying to make? Buddhipriya 07:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Twilight language: godsmacked
Twilight language (and the Sanskrit term from which it is rendered) is a valuable categorisation term that fords dialogue between mutually informing technologies and processes. I am godsmacked how you can dismiss it out of turn.

B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 01:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * But what's it got to do with this article? The quote is vague and has no infomation specific to mudra. It a non sequitur in the lead section of this article. The way you frame it, it seems to belong in an article about the differnce between Indian and Tibetan Buddhism. This leads away from the actual topic of the article and there is no followup to show how it connects. It just "out there" and "ungrounded", to use a couple more "hippy" terms. IPSOS (talk) 01:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a case of content spamming. The material seems to me to be irrelevant to the topic of the article, and it is not clear how the source specifically qualifies as a WP:RS with regard to the subject of the article, which is Mudra.  This may also be a case of WP:OR, with subsequent spamming of the same idea on multiple articles. Buddhipriya 03:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd agree with that assessment. When the same thing is pasted into multiple articles, I don't see how it can possibly fit any of them. IPSOS (talk) 04:08, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * We have continued content spamming of the same material again, with no discussion on the talk page to try to get a dialog: . We have established that this "twilight language" terminology is a technical term in Buddhist tantra, and I object to its general use here as a form as type of WP:UNDUE emphasis on a marginal issue.  Since the editor persists in this content spamming, I now that that an RfC or other measure is called for.  What do others feel should be done to deal with this ongoing content dispute where one editor refuses to engage in dialog? Buddhipriya 22:39, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Use of Harvnb template
Would there be any objection to use of the Harvnb template for citations, placed within footnotes (not as visible inline Harvard-style citations)? Since there are almost no references for this article, it seems like a good time to add some and install better critical apparatus. Buddhipriya 04:04, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Unsourced article makes no distinction between uses in Hinduism and Buddhism
This unsourced article makes many general statements and gives an impression of being mainly concerned with Buddhist iconography. Uses of these gestures in Hinduism may differ. Most of the sources that I have on hand that could be used for this article pertain to Hinduism. I am unsure how to proceed on some of these specific gestures, because of lack of familiarity with Buddhist art. Since it is almost entirely unsourced, are there any feelings about how to deal with this issue? Buddhipriya 03:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * there is more difference within traditions than there is between them...well in regards to Mudra anyway :-D
 * B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 23:17, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This does not address the issue I brought up on your talk page, and yet you have reverted without discussion again. Why? GlassFET 23:20, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Huh?
What does "the left hand hanging down on the right side of the while standing" mean? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Epopt (talk • contribs).

Lead
This is not only near-incomprehensible, but incorrect:


 * Mudrā (Sanskrit) is a 'spiritual gesture' and energetic 'seal of authenticity' employed in the iconography and sadhana of Dharmic Traditions and Taoic Traditions; particularly those influenced by Tantra, Shinto and Shamanism.

What is the basis for the last sentence? In the meantime, I've rewritten the lead as follows:


 * A mudrā (Sanskrit: मुद्रा, lit. "seal") is a symbolic or ritual gesture in Hinduism and Buddhism. While some mudras involve the entire body, most are performed with the hands and fingers.

Comments welcome. Jpatokal (talk) 09:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, you removed it, but it reappeared almost immediately. But I agree, & will refactor. Johnbod (talk) 04:17, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Namasté
Is Namasté not a mudra? __meco (talk) 08:53, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Some people use it synonymously with anjali mudra while many others say "prayer hands" to describe its connotation. Morganfitzp (talk) 19:51, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Mudra
the word "mudra" is a gay lingo for mother in the Philippines. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.97.247.76 (talk) 15:38, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Illustration
I find it difficult to understand many the descriptions. I think it would help to have illustrations (drawings or photographs) to illustrate each mudra discussed?--Gak (talk) 13:58, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree! Can someone who understands these mudras provide illustrations or photos? DBlomgren (talk) 04:25, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I will create some illustrations. Stay tuned.Riwo (talk) 04:36, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Christianity
There are examples of what look (to me anyway) like mudras in the art of Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Christ is often portrayed with his index and middle fingers extended, like the Cub Scout sign, or with his fingers in other (apparently intentional) arrangements. - User:WillWare
 * http://www.orthodox-icon.com/icon_gal/icon004.jpg
 * http://www.replicoins.com/assets/images/Web-Byz-Good-Christ.jpg
 * http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/47/46577/framed_christ_teacher.jpg


 * Yes, this is Surya (Sun) mudra, seen on many icons. The artists understood the position of JC as the Adi Surya, original Sun God, Surya Narayana. See
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_the_Julii
 * http://www.sahajayoga.com.au/news/2006/12/19/agnya-chakra/
 * If someone knows some studies about this, add this info to the article. (Btw, your first two links are already dead.)
 * Jan 90.177.206.31 (talk) 10:28, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * These are blessing gestures in which the position of the fingers is intended to represent the Christogram, or initials of "Jesus Christ" in Greek. I think there are more conventions than our article fully covers. I don't think they are entirely the same thing, but maybe worth a sentence, as also the Jewish Priestly Blessing. Any connection with chakras etc is totally fringe, frankly. Johnbod (talk) 13:53, 22 March 2010 (UTC)


 * There're too many connections between Israel and India. In the priestly blessing is interesting the V shape of fingers since the V or U sign was used as the forehead symbol among various theistic groups in Mediterranean area and beyond (http://www.ou.edu/class/ahi1113/html/ch-15.htm), Israelites included (see 'Greek and Roman Slavery' by Thomas Wiedemann) and can be seen on many icons, including Turin Shroud ('Vignon markings'). Jan 90.177.206.31 (talk) 09:19, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * "Mudras"(hand-finger gestures) certainly existed in Europe. You see them on statues and paintings/murals of saints. Or in case of the tarot "The Devil" card.

Ted

Content removal
I had to remove the following section because it was misleading. The research is about interpretation of hand gestures and not about performing hand gestures. The articles states that recognizing hand gestures stimulates the same regions of the brain as interpreting a language. Performing hand gestures does not do the same.


 * A brain research paper published in the National Academy of Sciences in November 2009, demonstrated that hand gestures stimulate the same regions of the brain as language.

Gyana Mudrā ("mudra of wisdom")
For some time, this mudra was spelled as "Dhyāna Mudrā", a different mudra which has its own subsection. Having attempted to amend this, I don't know the proper accent marks for Gyana Mudrā, and the subsection's title spelling now has different accent marks from the subsection's text's spelling of Gyana. Is either spelling correct? Expert help requested, and thanks.--Quisqualis (talk) 19:53, 9 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello, it is gyān and can also be written as gyaan. Let me know if I can help with anything else! Hemmingweigh (talk) 21:02, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

To list or not to list?
Given that there are related articles called "List of mudras (dance)" and "List of mudras (yoga)," it would stand to reason that this article is not a place to list mudras, but rather to give an overview of what they, where they come from, and to compare various mudra traditions. I recommend removing the lists here, expanding the lists in related articles, and adding some references to support al of it. Morganfitzp (talk) 19:57, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. More, the examples should be diverse rather than all about pretty hand gestures. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:44, 19 February 2019 (UTC)


 * I completely agree! Moving both of the lists here will make the information easier to find. Hemmingweigh (talk) 21:02, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Mudra has been an English word since before 1900
Merriam-Webster records Mudra used in English in 1811, so it's had over 200 years to assimilate into English: it's an English word now, wherever it came from.

Mudra has been widely used in English since before 1900, see this Ngram. As such it is different from the foreign word that it was borrowed from; asserting that it's still foreign is an Etymological fallacy: both the spelling and the meaning are free to shift with patterns of English usage, which may (fortunately or unfortunately according to taste) differ from usage in Hinduism or Buddhism (and those two are different from each other).

To save having this discussion at 100 talk pages, I suggest we continue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Yoga.

Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:43, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Taoist Mudras
Mudras in Taoist tradition not mention. There are some overlap with Buddhist/Hindu traditiional mudras. Main difference is there is more weaving of fingers (and complex weaving of fingers).

2607:FEA8:4A2:4100:F9FB:7822:6AEA:A659 (talk)Ted2607:FEA8:4A2:4100:F9FB:7822:6AEA:A659 (talk) 2607:FEA8:4A2:4100:F9FB:7822:6AEA:A659 (talk) 06:08, 16 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi, if you have any sources I would be happy to help include them! Hemmingweigh (talk) 21:03, 27 September 2023 (UTC)