Talk:Mueang

Subdivisions of Thailand says: The district which contains the capital is named Amphoe Mueang

so what's the meaning of Mueang? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 23:26, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Mueang is simply "city" or "town" - thus "Amphoe Mueang" means something like city district. However the cities nowadays have as full name "thesaban mueang" (see List of cities in Thailand). Thus to call "Mueang" a "former subdivison" is nonsense, as I tried to explain at Category talk:Former provinces of Thailand at the beginning of the 20th century there was no division between "town" and "province", and even today many Thais don't know about those "thesaban" entities. IMHO instead of this nanostub (wikipedia is not a dictionary) this can be redirect to List of cities in Thailand, or a yet to create article about the administrative structures of cities is Thailand. andy 08:48, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Monthon, because after what you say here the article is buggy. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 17:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * What do you mean? What part is wrong? andy 17:53, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

It says monthon were made up of changwats. then you come and say XY changwat (Category talk:Former provinces of Thailand) was not a changwat, but a mueang. This info should be added to monthon. The intro does not mention mueang at all. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 17:57, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The monthon did contain provinces, which however were more-or-less just cities. The term changwat was introduced during the administrative reforms, at first in 1907 for the provinces in Monthon Pattani, and in 1916 it became in general use. Before these entities were usually simply called Mueang. The fact that these towns became provinces in the modern sense is covered in Provinces of Thailand. andy 18:12, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe instead of writing here, fix monthon. This article is confusing.
 * Together with the monthon also the still existing provinces (changwat), districts (amphoe) and communes (tambon) were established nationwide. 
 * The system was officially adopted by the 1897 Local Administration Act, after some monthon were established before and the details of administration were tried out. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 18:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Miiang
Anybody know enough Lao to comment on miiang? I often hear it used in Isan. I don't know how it is spelled in Lao script, but miiang is used in many instance, especially in footnotes referring to titles of sources, in the history of 18-19th century Thai vs. Lao, beginning with the fabric of history. --Pawyilee (talk) 03:17, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Source
Paths to conflagration : fifty years of diplomacy and warfare in Laos, Thailand, and Vietnam, 1778-1828. Authors: Mayurī Ngaosīvat [Mayuri Ngaosivat]and Pheuiphanh Ngaosyvathn. Publisher: Ithaca, N.Y. : Southeast Asia Program Publications, Cornell University, 1998. Series: Studies on Southeast Asia, no. 24. Edition/Format: Book : English. ID Numbers: Open Library OL433527M | ISBN 10 0877277230 Library Thing 4223523
 * LC Control Number 98141866 | OCLC/WorldCat 38909607 |

Review
 * With this work, the authors, Mayoury and Pheuiphanh Ngaosyvathn, offer us a wealth of information on the history of a small kingdom, the Lao, centered at Vientiane, in modern Laos, caught between expanding core states (Burma, Thailand, and Vietnam) in the late eighteenth- and early nineteenth century. The authors draw upon a wide literature and an impressive range of languages to present a clear and careful picture of a very complex period in Lao and Southeast Asian history.


 * This book is really the story of Chou Anou, the last of the Lao kings of Vientiane and his struggle against rivals on all sides. Chou Anou played a political game between the expansionist Thai and Vietnamese states in the late eighteenth and ear]y nineteenth centuries, a game that his kingdom eventually lost. Because of the Tay Son, Vietnam was out of the picture for decades; the central Thai court was Chou Anou's chief antagonist. When Vietnam does enter the picture again under Minh Mang, it is as a supporter of Chou Anou, in the context of a larger Thai-Vietnamese competitive hostility. Fighting between Thailand and Vientiane appears on an extremely personal level in the text &mdash; the authors stressing at one point Rama III's anxiety that a massacre of Vietnamese emissaries and Lao guides by a Thai officer had not left enough dead, considering an earlier massacre of Thai by Chou Anou in Vientiane (p. 242); they stress also the personal nature of the fighting between Chou Anou and the Thai general Bodin. Further, the text seems almost to replicate, anachronistically, aspects of war more endemic to the post-World-War II conflicts in Indochina, including a reference to "sophisticated Siamese psychological operations" (p. 212).


 * Paths to Conflagration is organized into nine chapters, each covering a different episode of the period, examined step-by-step, and turns from one incarnation of Vientiane to another &mdash; from victim to provocateur to buffer state. Each page is heavy with documentation, but the narrative is lighter. This book has three real strengths. First, it discusses history at the point of intersection between three different polities and does not apply the nation-state "cookie-cutter" approach &mdash; looking only at developments as they relate to a state-centered narrative (thus framed by political borders). Instead of the history of Laos, we find here the history of a very turbulent period in which political borders did not mean very much in delineating the boundaries of action. Second, this book makes use of a very wide range of sources, especially from the Thai archives, spanning a large number of languages (including Lao, Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, French, English, and German &mdash; both primary sources and secondary literature) and a multitude of perspectives. Third, this book focuses attention on developments sometimes left out of analyses of mainland Southeast Asian history, such as the all-important impact of migration, especially in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. It is no mistake that migration is referred to over and over again in chronicles of the period, from western Burma to Vietnam, and that migration is used as metaphor for political change and state reformation for far earlier periods in these chronicles. Here too, migration played a very important role, as the authors stress both migration into the Lao kingdom, and forcible expulsion by the Thais, as a basis for the well-being and even survival of the Vientiane-based state.

--Pawyilee (talk) 03:50, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Etymology
An email contact has told me the Müang in Müang Fai is not a stand-alone word, and that Müang is unrelated to Mueang. --Pawyilee (talk) 11:54, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I've addressed the controversy as best as I can. --Pawyilee (talk) 05:06, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

The word mueang
mueang means "Old City" I am not sure where to add that translation information 180.183.229.154 (talk) 13:58, 18 July 2022 (UTC)