Talk:Muedzul Lail Tan Kiram

Move
I do not understand why some people can not understand, Datu muedzul Lail Tan Kiram was crowned in 1974 under Memo Order 427 as Raja Muda, that is fact, please visit www.royalsultanateofsulu.org and under section Raja Muda you will find the certified opy from Philippine Foreign Minsitry confirming it, so I will move it back. Tahnk you for your attention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RDAndrew (talk • contribs) 00:03, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Please do sign your comments. And no, you didn't move it back. You just copied the content. That can't be. There's a process for this. Request for a page move at WP:RM so that it can go under closer scrutiny if it should really be moved back. The page history of this article must be kept that's why you cannot just copy it to the old one. When a requested move is done, the old title ("Raja ...") is deleted so that this page can be freely moved along with its history. Please do understand. Moray An Par (talk) 00:40, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Dear Moray An Par, please explain me what has happened now? Can I move it back as I have provided legal documents which confirm my statement and nobody has not discussed it here? RDAndrew (talk) 10:29, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The move was denied by an administrator, so no you cannot move it. You may however use the title in the first mention of his name. Subsequent mentions must only use his surname per our manual of style. Though it may be proven through the evidence you provided that Muedzul has the legal right to use the titles, you should only discuss it in the article proper and not use the titles in every mention of his name. Moray An Par (talk) 11:54, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * See WP:HONORIFIC. Moray An Par (talk) 11:55, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

File:Rajamuda.jpg Nominated for Deletion
I do not understand why someone needs to delete his image, as it belongs to Royal Archives of Sulu and I have all rights to display it here. This image shows official coronation what took place in 1974! Please if you dont have any idea of Sulu history then I can be helpful and provide documents. -- unsigned comment by RDAndrew. Moray An Par (talk) 09:18, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * This is not the page to discuss that. See commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Rajamuda.jpg. Moray An Par (talk) 09:18, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Not moved. No case has been made for ignoring MOS:HONORIFIC which seems to apply here. Also a reading of WP:OFFICIAL might be helpful. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:07, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Muedzul Lail Tan Kiram → Raja Muda Muedzul Lail Tan Kiram of Sulu – I am requesting this on User:RDAndrew's behalf. I do not have any strong opinions regarding the title. I expect that the two persons (RD and User:JL 09) most involved in this article will present their rationales for and against this move. Moray An Par (talk) 15:09, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Dear Moray An Par, thank you RDAndrew (talk) 18:22, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I hope I did understand you correctly and this is the correct place where to held the discussion:D.

Please take a note that I have added three certified copies of documents to the Muedzul Lail Tan Kiram's WP page. They all are certified by Philippine Foreign Ministry and they confirm Muedzul Lail Tan Kiram's birth right to use the title: Raja Muda as stated per Memo Order 427. The question is not about Sovereignty and also Raja Muda Muedzul Lail Tan Kiram of Sulu is not a subject by International Law, but as I mentioned previously Philippine Government has recognised office of the Sultan of Sulu after 1915 and also office of the Raja Muda.

Therefore I request to move Muedzul Lail Tan Kiram article back to Raja Muda Muedzul Lail Tan Kiram of Sulu. User: JL 09 is constantly trying to explain that I am wrong but at the same time he does not have any documents to prove he is right and therefore his arguments are not strong enough and should be considered as null. RDAndrew (talk) 18:33, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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