Talk:Muhajir (Pakistan)

Article written on fanpoint view
Overall I believe strongly that i have found some biases in the article that might apply with the Wiki:NPOV, as a member of Wikipedia community i believe that it is strongly needed for the article to be reedited with a neutral point of view (NPOV) to ensure that information is presented in a way that is knowledgeable for all.

Here are some lines which i strongly believe can be of a fan's point of view:

Article title The Muhajirs are the most educated, and affluent ethnic group in Pakistan. Because of this, they constituted a influential community in the earlier years of post-partition Pakistan.

Geographic distribution, Pakistan The muhajir dominance of Urban sindh has led to that region being referred to as Urdu-speaking Sindh.

History On 14 August 1947, the muhajir led Pakistan movement succeeded in creating an independent state for Indian Muslims under the banner of Pakistan. The percentage of Muhajirs in the civil service declined while the percentage of non-muhajirs increased.
 * 1958-1970

Society and pay more taxes than any other ethnic group. Muhajirs are seen as the most-educated and literate ethnic group in Pakistan.  ⭐️ Starkex ⭐️  📧 ✍️  06:10, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Economic status
 * Education


 * Everything is cited FLA-ALP-1 (talk) 04:08, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This reply was highly unprofessional and written from a biased view nevertheless I appreciate you're opinion, this reply explains Muhajir inferiority complexes that have existed since 1947 against every other group of Pakistan that doesn't speak Urdu. Thanks.  ⭐️ Starkex ⭐️  📧 ✍️  16:20, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Nice one. Most educated and richest ethnic group feeling inferior. But whatever, lets get on with this so-called Fan POV
 * The Muhajirs are the most educated, and affluent ethnic group in Pakistan. Because of this, they constituted a influential community in the earlier years of post-partition Pakistan. This has been cited and is a fact, like US is the most influential country in the world. This is a plain fact. Read the rest of the article and you will understand how muhajirs were influential and btw urdu the national language of pakistan is native to only one ethnicity of Pakistan: muhajirs.
 * The muhajir dominance of Urban sindh has led to that region being referred to as Urdu-speaking Sindh. I changed this slightly to this region is sometimes referred to as Urdu-speaking Sindh because of its large muhajir population
 * On 14 August 1947, the muhajir led Pakistan movement succeeded in creating an independent state for Indian Muslims under the banner of Pakistan. Cited and plain fact, muhajirs dominated AIML and made pakistan.
 * The percentage of Muhajirs in the civil service declined while the percentage of non-muhajirs increased. Removed this because this was irrelevant, the paragraph was talking about elections not jobs.
 * and pay more taxes than any other ethnic group Cited and fact not POV
 * FLA-ALP-1 (talk) 06:41, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I left a warning on that user's page. Not all Muhajirs speak Urdu and not all of them are Muslims and that's what's the problem with this persons edits.--Sylvester Millner (talk) 04:38, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Understanding issues
I also left a message User:Flamealpha123 to avoid personalization of differences. Said that, let us come to content part. Starkex, Article subsections Muhajir (Pakistan) and Muhajir (Pakistan) seem to be well cited. And summary statements in lead do not need citation if supported by citations in rest of body text. Do you have any objections on citations used in these two subsections? &#32;Bookku   (talk) 09:34, 12 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you, nevertheless i appreciate you're contributions towards a neutral and knowledgeable WikiPedia. Starkex (talk) 18:13, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The sources seem like personal commentary and not published research; therefore they are not neutral and thereby not reliable.--Sylvester Millner (talk) 23:43, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * please spe ify so they can be replaced FLA-ALP-1 (talk) 05:19, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * To me most of them appear to be scholarly sources, especially the ones in education FLA-ALP-1 (talk) 05:21, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * this discussion is another complaint against Flamalpha's edits. That user tried to mislead you into thinking this is a complaint against my edits. It's not the case at all. If you look at it properly, this is a repeat of my complaint above in the previous discussion before this one. This discussion is not endorsing Flamealpha's edits as the user tried to make you believe. Rather it is a repeating concern against their edits.--Sylvester Millner (talk) 00:00, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2023
people who came from India to Pakistan were Refugees not migrants. 94.202.214.83 (talk) 14:11, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Actualcpscm (talk) 15:34, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Question Regarding Muhajirs being Ethnolinguistic
The description of the page it is written as "Ethnolinguistic group...", I think there are mass errors with the description Muhajirs being ethnolinguistic, @Flamealpha123 do you understand the difference between Ethnoreligious and Ethnolinguistic and have you compared them both in contrast with the history of Muhajirs since 1947? I think you don't understand why migration of Indianized Muslims from India to Pakistan happened.  ⭐️ Starkex ⭐️  📧  ✍️ 12:28, 6 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Please read WP:NPA, before mentioning me again. As for muhajir identity being a primarily linguistic one:
 * https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323833025_The_Mohajir_Identity_in_Pakistan_The_Natives%27_Perspective
 * https://books.google.com.sa/books?id=W7NLEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA216&dq=muhajir+identity+linguistic&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwinm_TZ0-P-AhUMgv0HHVfmAvUQ6AF6BAgCEAI
 * https://books.google.com.sa/books?id=I51EAQAAIAAJ&q=muhajir+identity+linguistic&dq=muhajir+identity+linguistic&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=1&printsec=frontcover&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwinm_TZ0-P-AhUMgv0HHVfmAvUQ6AF6BAgLEAI
 * https://books.google.com.sa/books?id=t7wIEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA532&dq=muhajir+identity+linguistic&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwinm_TZ0-P-AhUMgv0HHVfmAvUQ6AF6BAgEEAI
 * FLA-ALP-1 (talk) 16:45, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I never made an personal attack on you, The reason I referred to you only is because in the span of months most of the edits in the article have been done by you only. That seems really biased.  ⭐️ Starkex ⭐️  📧  ✍️ 13:56, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Biased because I want to help Wikipedia grow? And btw what is this supposed to mean? I think you don't understand why migration of Indianized Muslims from India to Pakistan happened. Is this about my edits or me? Also look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Muhajir_(Pakistan)&diff=prev&oldid=1143511618 you were the one who called us a ethnolinguistic group. FLA-ALP-1 (talk) 17:19, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Extension needed
since you're the admin who semi-protected, I think it's a good idea to extend the semi-protection. Because between the time you protected and now, a number of accounts have edit warred. Mostly it was one promotional editor. But regardless of that user, this is an article that's edit warred enough on, so I don't think allowing the semi-protection to end is a good idea. It's better for this article to remain semi-protected for the foreseeable future. Sylvester Millner (talk) 05:40, 15 June 2023 (UTC)


 * 2 months left in current protection -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:23, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * , do you think that's a wise thing? Maybe it should be extended, considering it's being edit warred over enough with the current protection level. I don't think it's safe to be left unprotected.--Sylvester Millner (talk) 17:57, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * You could request at WP:RFPP -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:29, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Christian Muhajirs
Muhajirs refers to the Muslim immigrants from the present-day India, who immigrated to Pakistan. The term 'Muhajir' is itself a Muslim term. So, Christianity is irrelevant here. 103.169.65.150 (talk) 11:19, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 May 2024
The descendants of those Muslims, who immigrated to Pakistan from present-day India, do not call themselves Muhajirs. 'Muhajir' was the term only used for those individual immigrants, who immigrated to Pakistan, from present-day India. Just as Muhacir were only the individual Turks, who immigrated to Turkey from the areas,which formerly used to be under the rule of the Ottoman Empire. The term literally means 'immigrant', It should not be applied to all Urdu speakers, Gujarati speakers, and Tamil speakers, just because, some minorities among them, call themselves a 'Muhajir'. The universal accepted term for them, are "Urdu-speaking people", "Pakistani Gujarati-speaking people", "Pakistani Tamil-speaking people", etc. Even Anwar Maqsood and Farooq Sattar have talked regarding the term. I would humbly request these articles to be created and/or to improve them. Darlingliterature (talk) 14:04, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 15:33, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Dear, My objections are very clear. "Muhajir" (immigrant) is not a universally accepted term for the Muslims and their descendants, who immigrated to Pakistan from present-day India. Thus, I request to shift this article to Urdu-speaking people. And for the Pakistani Gujarati and Tamil Muslim communities, I request the new articles to be created for them. Thanks. Darlingliterature (talk) 12:16, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @M.Bitton Please reply, and share your thoughts. Thanks. Darlingliterature (talk) 11:34, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * that's not an edit request. If you want to have those articles created, then you're going to have to write them yourself or ask someone who's familiar with the subjects. M.Bitton (talk) 11:39, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I am not able to edit the extended protected article, until I made 500 edits (which is too far). So, I am unable to shift the article to Urdu-speaking people. Darlingliterature (talk) 13:26, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @M.Bitton Kindly suggest something that I can do. Darlingliterature (talk) 20:57, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I already suggested what you can do, so I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to suggest. M.Bitton (talk) 21:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @M.Bitton Kindly shift this article to Urdu-speaking people, Gujaratis in Pakistan, and Tamils in Pakistan, or give me the access to this article. I have provided why, this term is not universally accepted in Pakistan or elsewhere. Darlingliterature (talk) 21:51, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * So-called "urdu speaking" people consist of only one group of several ethnicities that came to Pakistan. Not all of them were Muslims.--Sylvester Millner (talk) 22:00, 8 July 2024 (UTC)