Talk:Muhammad Surur Dakhilallah Al Utaybi

Replaced transcluded image with inline image - npov tag as per dispute on Template talk:Combatant Status Review Tribunal trailer image and caption
Replaced transcluded image with inline image - npov tag as per dispute on Template talk:Combatant Status Review Tribunal trailer image and caption. Geo Swan 11:55, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

A unilateral initiative...
Another wikipedia contributor recently started an unilateral initiative to remove referenced material from the captions of images of the trailer where CSR Tribunals were held, that the captives were shackled, hand and foot, to a bolt in the floor. This other contributor replaced the caption with another caption that asserts that the Tribunals were merely usually held in a small trailer. This contributor failed to provide a single reference to back up their assertion that some captives attended Tribunals that were not held in a trailer like the one pictured.

My response -- User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/shackles.

In my opinion the edits in this unilateral initiative is problematic because they remove referenced material and replaced it with the unreferenced assertion, that contradicts all WP:RS.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 08:48, 10 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Firstly let me assure you that there is and has never been "an unilateral initiative". Please be careful with such inflammatory language. IMO to falsely describe my edit in this way could be seen as an initiative itself and that would be a kind of initiative that has never been received well by the Wikipedia community.


 * Coming to the content issue that i guess you may want to discuss: I have read the page that you have created in your user space including the given references. I knew these information and references and some of it could be used to further improve Combatant Status Review Tribunal.


 * Regarding my edit to this article here. The biography of Muhammad Surur Dakhilallah Al Utaybi i have to say the old version and the page you have created does not verify that Muhammad Surur Dakhilallah Al Utaybi's CSRT took place in the trailer that is shown in the picture and it does not verify that Muhammad Surur Dakhilallah Al Utaybi's hands were shackled to a bolt in the floor during his CSRT. In fact the page you have created strenghten the arguments for my version with the wording usually.


 * You have frequently pointed out that reliable sources are important to write WP articles and i fully agree with that and i have always done so.


 * As far as i see we do not have reliable sources that verify that Muhammad Surur Dakhilallah Al Utaybi's tribunal was held in the trailer shown in the image and we do not have reliable sources that verify that Muhammad Surur Dakhilallah Al Utaybi's hands were shackled in the way as it was described in the image description during his CSRT.


 * There are also many more requirements and rules that can not be ignored or broken when writing an encyclopedic article.


 * I think here you are ignoring the basic rules of logic.


 * To provide reliable sources that some detainees's CSRT were held in the trailer shown in the picture does not follow that Muhammad Surur Dakhilallah Al Utaybi's CSRT was held in this trailer. As well reliable sources that some detainees were shackled during CSRT does not follow that Muhammad Surur Dakhilallah Al Utaybi were.


 * This is an ongoing event and as soon we find reliable source that verify this information for Muhammad Surur Dakhilallah Al Utaybi the subject of this biography without violating the rules of logic or other rules, than and only than should we add it to his biography. IQinn (talk) 05:01, 11 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The response above is duplicate of one Iqinn provided elsewhere. I believe my response there is equally applicable here.  Geo Swan (talk) 14:00, 13 January 2010 (UTC)