Talk:Mullá Husayn

Dead external links
According to me both links are dead. Could you please check? Wiki-uk 12:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, they work for me. -- Jeff3000 13:37, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You are right. Problem solved... Wiki-uk 16:27, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Picture?
Someone saw a picture of Mulla Husayn. Does anyone know where to find it? If so, could you upload it? Wiki-uk 12:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Title
Although all Baha'is know of him as Mulla Husayn, I would say this title does not generally fit the encyclopedic format of Wikipedia. For instance Pope Benedict XVI has that title since it is exclusively his name as Pope (rather than as Joseph Alois Ratzinger). However, Ayatollah Khomeini is under his name: Ruhollah Khomeini, the Archbishop of Canterbury is under Rowan Williams, Fray Junípero Serra is under Junípero Serra, etc. I would think the title should be Husayn-i-Bushru'i, with a redirect from Mullá Husayn. Mullá is a clerical title. - Parsa (talk) 02:05, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Policy says it's OK. Honorifics. Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  16:28, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Major expansion
Hey does anyone want to help me find more information on this? As a Baha'i I don't have any problem with Baha'i sources (the reference material I have access to tends to be anyway) but as a Wikipedian I'd like a little more diversity. I'm working (albeit slowly) to expand this page to a full article and any help I can get on this would be deeply appreciated.

Things I'd particularly like information on are Mulla Husayn's time in the Shaykhi movement, his time as a Letter of the Living, and his involvement at Shaykh Tabarsi. If we can knock out some of those core points then we'll have a base upon which to add detail and depth. Peter Deer (talk) 13:29, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * On a side note, I'm still not particularly good at referencing, so I apologize in advance if I've messed up the references in any way. Any suggestions/help on that would be quite welcome as well. Peter Deer (talk) 15:01, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

2017 Rework
Working to make this more than a stub/start. Mulla Husayn is the most significant figure in the early history of Babism and the Baha'i Faith other than the founders and deserves a more thorough treatment. So far I've reworked the intro and part of the biography, as well as providing a way for both the Babism and Baha'i Faith templates to be included. Since there doesn't seem to be a portrait of Mulla Husayn accesible, I've included media of his sword. I'm planning on working on sections about his journey, and his role in the Babi religion after recognizing the Bab. I'd like to creat a section on his significance in both religions, but may pause after getting his biography figured out.

Please let me know if there is anything I'm not doing right or should rework. I haven't really edited in 5 years or so and am sort of re-getting the hang of it. - (penultimate_supper (talk) 04:23, 31 August 2017 (UTC))
 * I've extended it quite a bit and have what I think are all the important sections. I'd like to flesh out his early life, period after Isfahan, and maybe rework the part about his death a bit. Right now there are 14 independent sources referenced and three images, so I'm satisfied with having expanded the verifiability and demonstrated appropriate notability for a larger article. Would like to increase the diversity of reference sources as well.penultimate_supper (talk) 20:35, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
 * A few weeks later, I feel I've really done a lot of what I wanted. The article has grown a lot, but I'm trying to aggressively keep things sourced (maybe too much?) as well as ensuring the narrative engaged diverse viewpoints and draws on the breadth of available verifiable sources. Need to figure out some stylistic points: how often to include names of individuals, when to explain shia/babi/bahai concepts that are obscure briefly in the article vs. when to just wikilink to another article, and how to deal with claims in sources that represent one or another POV and aren't seen in other sources. I feel the sources are very diverse, ranging from Baha'is, academics with no connection, sympathetic academics, hostile academics, and occasionally primary sources when appropriate. Any feedback would be appreciated as I continue. I may take a little break to really dive into Amanat and see what he has to offer. penultimate_supper (talk) 19:24, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * You have done a lot! I'll try reading through - meanwhile perhaps you can help read through Thornton Chase which I've worked a great deal on. From my pov, aggreesive sourcing is good. Smkolins (talk) 11:49, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll give Chase a thorough read-through, I've been observing your superhuman work over there. Thanks so much for the help, as this article has grown I've been worried I might be propagating mistakes more and more, so it's really helpful to get more eyes. I'd love to get this article up to a really high standard. penultimate_supper (talk) 14:36, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Each term is used 10 times in the article. My understanding is that Persia is the more usual term to refer to things in the Period. I've heard it said that that is actually a non-Iranian term for the country based on other peoples trying to name them something and tending towards recognition of a Perse (sp?) faction or group. But that's an obscure matter I've never seen fleshed out in a real discussion/reliable source. Can we shift the majority of the mentions, especially, in the period, to use Persia and its variations? I think "Qajar Iran" is especially confusing on this point. Or split it and say Persia during the rule of the Qajar dynasty.Smkolins (talk) 12:02, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Persia vs Iran
 * I'll standardize to Persia and specific Qajar if ever relevant. penultimate_supper (talk) 14:20, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

I know in Persian/Arabic culture it is nearly universal to always include the honorific of one who has gone on pilgrimage, but can we decouple that and just say something about that. There are times people almost want to use it as a first name. And Mulla - it being actually his religious title. In English it would be like saying Reverend so and so. Can is more proper personal name and the various titles and honorifics be decoupled. I recognize that "Mulla Husayn" is a functional name for him and should remain the main mention of him by name, but at least somewhere break out that Mulla is a religious title and not his name. Thoughts? Smkolins (talk) 12:09, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Haji, Hajji, and really it is an honorific and for that matter Mulla
 * This is a good point, I almsot forget that his name is Husayn, and Mulla is a title. I'll fiddle with the lead and early life sections to create more clarity. penultimate_supper (talk) 14:21, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Can we get the name of his mother and not just his father? Smkolins (talk) 12:12, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Gender parallelism
 * Trying to find it . . . There's actually more info about her in a number of sources than about the father, but no name so far. I have Mehrabkhani's book coming in through ILL and am hoping it will be included there in one of the sections I haven't had access to yet via Google Books. penultimate_supper (talk) 14:23, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

If several points are going to be detailed I cite on the first of them, not at the end. I tagged an entry needing a citation and then saw it might be at the end. I think citing at the first entry of a source is better than at the end. But I'm open to more thoughts on that. Smkolins (talk) 12:25, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Citing multiple points
 * This makes sense for me, thanks for the input on this, I haven't been sure what it the best practice and slogging through policy articles doesn't always clarify things quickly :p The example you gave in the article makes a lot more sense to me than the way I had it, I'll try to do this from now on. penultimate_supper (talk) 14:34, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the sources have to say about this but as a reader I'd wish there was more on why he sought out Siyyid Kazim since it was pivotal to everything that followed. Or if little is known that saying that is good too.It would be good to note dates of when Shaykh Ahmad died (I also noteiced it is missing on his article as well as his birth date even if in-exact) to give leadership to Kazim (again, honorifics as part of names.) Smkolins (talk) 12:47, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Attracted to Siyyid Kazim's teachings
 * I think Amanat has some info on this actually, I just got my hands on a physical copy of Ressurection and Renewal and will see if he includes more info. The whole honorifics thing gets soo confusing in this setting, because the name/title divide in Arabic/Persian isn't analogous to English. In some ways referring to Shaykh Ahmad feels like saying President Obama every time, which gets sill, but referring to just Ahmad is imprecise and actually less accurate in some ways since names and title became integrated in everyday speech. penultimate_supper (talk) 14:26, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree on all counts. I support it is natural following the mixture of eastern practice and westerners trying to catch up. It's also from another era entirely where last names were developed initially just because of where you lived or what you did so accomplishments were a way of differentiating…. Smkolins (talk) 15:09, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Mullá Husayn. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060821215555/http://www.lvbahai.org/Kitab_i_Iqan_Glossary.htm to http://www.lvbahai.org/Kitab_i_Iqan_Glossary.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:57, 27 December 2017 (UTC)