Talk:Mull Historical Society

Discussion
(Copied from User talk:John)

Thankyou for your comment, but Mull Historical Society were not just a pseudonym for Colin MacIntyre - that's like saying The Smiths were just a pseudonym for Morrissey. They were a band with four members. In what way wasn't my edit factual or neutral? Atoms4peace (talk) 16:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This is not the case according to


 * http://www.colinmacintyre.com/colinmacintyre.com/WELCOME.html "Colin MacIntyre, aka Mull Historical Society, the songwriter, multi-instrumentalist and producer, has released 3 albums under the ‘Mull Historical Society’ pseudonym..."
 * http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll "Scotland's Mull Historical Society is singer, songwriter and multi-instrumentalist Colin MacIntyre. He arrived onto the British music scene in 2000. Although the name is confusing MHS has always been a pseudo name for the solo artist MacIntyre..."
 * As you know we operate according to reliable sources; what are yours? --John (talk) 16:50, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * http://www.epitonic.com/index.jsp?refer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.epitonic.com%2Fartists%2Fmullhistoricalsociety.html - this describes the other members.
 * http://www.garbledonline.net/mullhistoricalsociety.html - this refers to MacIntyre as the band's lead singer (rather than being the entire band).
 * http://www.amazon.com/Loss-Mull-Historical-Society/dp/B000066703/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3684220-4121600?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199467852&sr=8-1 - hmm, but then, this one (Amazon's page for the album Loss) refers to them as a duo - "Colin MacIntyre and bassist Alan Malloy".


 * Either way, it's not as clear cut as "Mull Historical Society is Colin MacIntyre". I suspect what happened was an unamiable break-up and probably some sort of royalties dispute rather than Colin MacIntyre one day deciding to change the name of his quite-famous band for no real reason. I do feel quite strongly that they should have separate pages, but you are an admin after all and I guess you know best. Atoms4peace (talk) 17:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I think Mull Historical Society and Colin MacIntyre should both have an article. (Just as Nine Inch Nails and Trent Reznor.) Notable albums were released under the name Mull Historical Society, and it very likely was a group. The name change and disregard of former collaborators should then also be neutrally stated. And please note that the website of Colin MacIntyre is self-published and thus not reliable. -- Pepve (talk) 18:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * And, the correct URL for the AMG page is: http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:0bfrxqykldse -- Pepve (talk) 18:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks Pepve, that was useful. I have adjusted both articles to reflect the consensus and the controversy. --John (talk) 20:26, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you, for sticking with such a constructive and open wiki process. -- Pepve (talk) 22:42, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Considering Colin Macintyre played most, if not all, the instruments on all the records I'd say it was a one-man band. The other musicians noted are session musicians used for live shows only. And indeed the same musicians are performing with Colin on his up-and-coming live dates. And if the man himself says he was a one-man band, who are we to argue? All other references, such as the reference on Amazon, are not exactly official sources are they? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.157.120 (talk) 09:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This is not a justification for keeping two separate articles. There should be one, at Colin MacIntyre, and this page should direct there. --John (talk) 22:53, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * That's possibly the case - but, to be honest, I can't recall which policy this would fall under. It might, given that MHS certainly have a recording history, be slightly more convenient to keep them separate perhaps, but if you can find decent policy to support the merge then I'd be happy. Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:36, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Just common sense; look at the two existing articles. There isn't enough material to justify two articles. If I took out all the unreferenced stuff there is barely enough there for one article. This doesn't have to be forever and can always be reappraised later. --John (talk) 17:42, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * And I think the one article should be at Colin MacIntyre rather than here because MacIntyre (barely) has some notability for his famous father (who possibly also deserves an article) and brother, whereas MHS's notability is entirely dependent on MacIntyre as frontman or sole permanent member. --John (talk) 19:50, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * And I think Colin MacIntyre is a multi-instrumentalist, programmer, songwriter and producer, who releases under the pseudonym 'Mull Historical Society'. is pretty conclusive. I will make the adjustments tomorrow if there are no objections. --John (talk) 20:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * He's released material under his own name as well - two albums at least off the top of my head. Iirc WP:BAND would apply here - technically I suppose it would be possible to argue that, as a result, both are valid articles as they meet at least some of the criteria from that. I don't remember if originally MHS was more of a collective or not - gut feeling says that it's more than just Colin's name on the album cover for the first album, but I'd have to dig it out to look. I can see both POV however - it might be fruitful to leave things for a few days (perhaps a week?) to check that there's no particularly strong opinion elsewhere - and perhaps a not on the Colin MacIntyre article might be a good idea - perhaps even following the formal WP:MERGE process?


 * I would, however, dispute is that he has any notability as a result of his family. Things are usually pretty clear in this regard about notability not being inherited. Perhaps for that reason I might favour keeping the MHS article and merging from CM perhaps. But that's just an immediate thought without really considering it in depth. Blue Square Thing (talk) 22:44, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have any problem with the merge going in that direction either. Happy to leave it a few days; it's been 6 years, so a few more days won't hurt! --John (talk) 22:46, 26 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Absolutely (although I confess to not realising the merge hat had been around for that long!) Blue Square Thing (talk) 21:12, 27 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I've merged the two articles now. --John (talk) 21:45, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I meant to get around to saying that I couldn't decide which way to merge them but that I felt going towards Colin MacIntyre would be better as it would be protected by BLP :-) Blue Square Thing (talk) 22:22, 4 February 2014 (UTC)