Talk:Multiple complex developmental disorder

Merger Proposal
The article Multisystem Developmental Disorder appears to be describing the same condition as Multiple-complex Developmental Disorder, so I have proposed they be merged into this article. There does not appear to be much information about these developmental disorders, so I would rather see if anyone else with a little expertise on multiplex developmental disorder has to say before I just merge them.--NeantHumain 18:33, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose. Not the same thing at all. Multi-system developmental disorder has nothing to do with anxiety or phobias. Please do not just assume that because the names sound similar they must be the same thing. --woggly 19:59, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind I've gone ahead an removed the merge label, as it seemed to me that you suggested the merge only because you knew less than I do about the difference between these two terms. I've also expanded the Multisystem Developmental Disorder article to clarify the distinction. MultiSYSTEM Developmental Disorder is a diagnosis applied only to small children, and is a relatively mild disorder. MultiCOMPLEX Developmental Disorder comes with a lot more baggage: severe emotional and behavioral problems, panic attacks etc. I agree that the terms sound too similar, I would change them if I could, but unfortunately I was not granted that power. ;-) --woggly 06:33, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Moving opinion by 81.207.229.124 from article to discussion
I took this out of the article; not sure if it was worth saving, but just in case:

"But every Autist isn't the same. the article that you are reading doesn't go up for every MCDD'er i know because i have MCDD. short explanation: you just see an apple. i see the apple more complex. i'm very good with PC's but awfully bad with topography and Dutch. in group 4 i was working english at the level of someone that is in group 8!" (Animaster, holland) Addition by 81.207.229.124 (Moved by Wikimancer (talk) 10:22, 8 February 2008 (UTC))
 * Yeah, I have it too, and I haven't noticed any psychopatic behavior myself though. Am I a reliable source?

Although I'm starting to doubt it now 86.81.80.104 (talk) 00:30, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Unreferenced material
Unreferenced material moved here:


 * Ever since autism was first recognized, its continuity with schizophrenia has been a matter of debate. In fact, until the late 1970s, children with autism were often labeled as having "childhood schizophrenia." In the last thirty years, however, the term "childhood schizophrenia" has been displaced. Diagnostic criteria for autism have been established that rely solely on social, communicative and sensorimotor symptoms, without reference to the thought disorders typical of schizophrenia.


 * Nevertheless, there are some children who display the severe, early-appearing social and communicative deficits characteristic of autism who ALSO display some of the emotional instability and disordered thought processes that resemble schizophrenic symptoms. Cohen, et al. (1986), coined the term Multiplex Developmental Disorder (MDD) to describe these children, although they are often given a diagnosis of PDD-NOS by clinicians who may be unfamiliar with this terminology. Unlike schizophrenia, MDD symptoms emerge in childhood, sometimes in the first years of life, and persist throughout development.


 * Multiplex developmental disorder is diagnosed in people who are on both the autism and schizophrenia spectrums. Their intelligence and emotional range run the gamut.  There is a high rate of co-morbidity with learning disorders, AD/HD, obsessive-compulsive disorder, depression, bipolar disorder, social anxiety disorder, Tourette's syndrome, personality disorders, epilepsy, and phobias.

-- Whatever404 (talk) 02:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * http://www.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/autism/mdd.html is where the opening statement on the original page was taken from. I reworded it to be shorter and moved the link to sources where it is more apporipate.  I also added "other symptoms" to include things such as savant skills, Synesthesia, Epilepsy which are known to be possible to co-occur in any autistic spectrum disorder.  other symptoms have been grouped into catergories where they would normally be diagnosed.  AD/HD symptoms co-occur in over 90% of MCDD patients because of the overlapping symptoms.  I have MCDD and have done a lot of research on it as well and have talked to several others with MCDD and have gained information from them as well about other symtoms people expierence.  No two people with MCDD or any other disorder will have all the same symtoms because all people are differant.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.185.101.145 (talk) 02:05, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I rewrote the article (there wasn't much to rewrite) based on the Yale ref. I don't know what "moved the link to sources where it is more appropriate" means.  I removed mcdd.be and wrongplanet.net because these are not reliable, third-party, verifiable sources.  (Also, editors cannot just cite entire websites.) Currently, what is there is supported by sources.  If you wish to add more content, please see the previous links, in order to learn more about what types of sources are appropriate for Wikipedia.  Also, see WP:CITE, to learn how to provide complete citations with page numbers, etc.  Whatever404 (talk) 13:16, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Normally I would add personal comments to a user Talk page, but as you do not have an account, I am posting this here to ensure you will see it. (Please consider registering a free Wikipedia account to make it easier to communicate with other editors.)
 * I imagine that you, a person with McDD, have personal insight into McDD and could contribute much to this article. What is important to remember when adding content to Wikipedia is that content must be backed by appropriate sources. Personal expertise cannot substitute for the sourcing requirement. This is not to say that personal experience and enthusiasm for a topic are not assets: indeed, they are!  Personal interest and experience are often excellent motivators to improve articles.
 * Again, I hope you will consider registering a free Wikipedia account, I can say that registering has improved my editing experience, perhaps it would for you, too. Whatever404 (talk) 13:53, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Again, I would have put this on your Talk page, but as you appear to be editing from two IP locations, I want to be sure you'll see it. Please consider registering a free Wikipedia account in order to facilitate communication between yourself and other editors.
 * I have reverted your most recent edit for several reasons.
 * You based your edit on a revert that removed quite a bit of work from other editors, including myself. By starting with a blanket revert, you deleted all of the work I did on the Sources section as well as the interlanguage links. It is not fair to edit in such a way that you require everyone else to go back and reinstate the work they did.
 * There are problems with the sources you used. Your contribution relied heavily on Wikipedia itself (you cited Current diagnostic criteria for bipolar disorder), as well as a page from a site which appears to mirror or fork Wikipedia, neither of which are allowed.
 * Despite my multiple requests, you did not format the references properly per WP:CITE. Please provide full citations, not just URLs.  Also, you should use the, tag to avoid repeating references dozens of times.  It was difficult to tell which statements belonged to which sources, because you created multiple reference numbers for each source.
 * If you wish to reinstate any of your work, I hope that you will refrain from reverting, use reliable sources, and cite them properly. Whatever404 (talk) 01:29, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Here is my take on the sources you used:


 * 1) http://www.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/autism/mdd.html - Appropriate
 * 2) http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/2495042 - Apparently a WP mirror/fork, not permitted
 * 3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_diagnostic_criteria_for_bipolar_disorder - WP itself; not permitted
 * 4) http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2268724 - Appropriate
 * 5) http://books.google.com/booksid=K8xWZG7wkVcC&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=severe+personality+disorders+mcdd&source=bl&ots=oqGJy_2GU9&sig=2azBPI0A7cghFqeYFdBmJqswVSY&hl=en&ei=d2eYStCYIIX0sQPtup2OAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=severe%20personality%20disorders%20mcdd&f=false - Link does not work
 * 6) http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~steve/dr1.htm - Who is "Steve", in the URL? How can we know that "Steve" copied the document exactly?  The real journal URL should be used.
 * 7) http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2009/02/synaesthesia_the_neurological_condition_in.php - Blogs not typically allowed under WP:SELFPUB
 * 8) http://autism.about.com/b/2008/04/11/autism-and-synethesia-strange-confluence-of-sight-sound-and-mind.htm - Not sure whether About.com is permitted, PubMed has many, better sources available.
 * 9) http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1805 - A student assignment, fails WP:RS

I hope this helps. Yuu can visit WP:RS and WP:V for more information about appropriate sources. Whatever404 (talk) 01:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Recent changes reverted
I recently reverted another round of changes to this article, because in many places, the sources used did not support the statements in the article. Several of the sources are self-published blogs, which fail WP:RS. Also, several of the sources list symptoms of a given disorder, such as autism or schizophrenia, but the sources do not mention MCDD at all: these cannot be used to support lists of MCDD symptoms. I provided literally dozens of reliable sources from PubMed, perhaps some of these can be used instead. Please also format any references used correctly per WP:CITE. Whatever404 (talk) 12:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

New sources
I have visited PubMed and added all available sources for multiple complex developmental disorder and multiplex developmental disorder. There are now perhaps 20 sources available on the page which can be used to improve the article. Whatever404 (talk) 13:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Mental Retardation
I have MCDD and Asperger syndrome, and i strongly disagree with the symptom of mental retardation, i myself have a IQ over 120, and i have 2 friends who also have MCDD, the first one also has an IQ of over 120, and the other one has an IQ of 141, and i checked with my psychiatrist and mental retardation is not a symptom of MCDD. --Lordcat33 (talk) 15:56, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Lordcat33! The article says: "Some examples include: .... mental retardation." It doesn't say all have MR. It also says: "At least three of the following categories should be present." - which implies that the category neurological symptoms doesn't have to be present. Lova Falk     talk   16:07, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I tried to check some sources, and nowhere I found that mental retardation was a symptom of MCDD. On the contrary, for instance this source stated that the autistic children with MR belonged to a different group. So I will remove this from the text. Thank you for telling us!  Lova Falk     talk   16:20, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Always glad to help! --Lordcat33 (talk) 14:54, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Questionable assertions
I've never seen anything in the literature regarding a connection between MCDD and savant syndrome, and it seems that this page is the only prominent suggestion of a link. It strikes me as probable speculation produced from the aether, and I'm removing the relevant section. If anyone thinks it should be re-added, please do so (with reference to external documentation, no anecdotes please). 150.101.121.196 (talk) 14:14, 18 May 2013 (UTC)