Talk:Mumbai/Archive 2

Where is the timeline?
What happened to the timeline of Mumbai history? --Just my 2 cents -- Hemanshu 20:16, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Its linked in the history section under the see also. == 04:59, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

List of Mumbai stations
A list of all the stations in Mumbai seems necessary to be given in the box of Mumbai related topics, at the end of the article. eg Borivali, Andheri, Dadar, Churchgate, Chembur etc... In fact much of Mumbai is known to people through these names.

There are no links at all to many stations in Mumbai in this article on Mumbai. That seems to be a very major omission. Water Fish 23:16, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

We can't have all the stuff on this page; but please read the text in detail before mentioning "major: omissions on the page: We can't have the list of all railway stations; it would be detailed while what is required here is an overview. =Nichalp (Talk)= 19:50, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) Under Culture:  Many residents prefer to stay close to major railway stations for easy access to their workplaces as a significant amount of time is spent on daily commuting
 * 2) under transport:

Bombay or Mumbai
The article currently says that it was formerly known as Bombay, but I thought Bombay was still the English Language name for this City. Isn't this just like Wien and Vienna? User:DavidFarmbrough 09 Jun 05


 * The name was officially changed (in English too) and is recognised universally. =Nichalp (Talk)= 11:59, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * An official change would suggest a change made by the Indian Government, Does their jurisdiction extend to changing the name used by the inhabitants of other countries? BTW I am assuming that the original Bombay was an Anglicisation of something that would now be transliterated as Mumbai, but please tell me if this is wrong.User:DavidFarmbrough 10 Jun 05


 * No, its not transliterated. Ref to the =history= section: the city was known as Bom Bahia by the Portuguese; then Anglicised to Bombay. Bombay was changed by the right-wing Shiv Sena party, who claimed that it was known by the name "Mumbai" before British times. (edit:My personal viewpoint: Unfortunately I can't find any proof that their stance was ever correct; they have also renamed a lot of city institutions. Thank goodness they are out of power!). Interestingly, till 1996, the name in some Indian languages were: Bambai --> the Hindi transliteration, Bomain --> Konkani and Mumbai --> the Marathi transliteration.


 * The name is widely used outside India. I've seen it on the BBC & CNN weather and news. Foreign embassies too have adopted the new name. =Nichalp (Talk)= 09:23, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * In Portuguese wouldn't it be "Boa Bahia" instead of "Bom Bahia", using the proper feminin article? I find it hard to believe that it would change gender over the years.


 * No, I'm aware there is a gender difference, but I've clarified it with User:PedroPVZ. =Nichalp (Talk)= 04:26, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)


 * "Bom Bahia" is an error. Some words in Portuguese indeed changed genders over the time, from “neuter” (invariant) to either feminine or masculine (ex.: "senhor" was both fem. and masc. in Camões day, and now the fem. form is "senhora"), but even in these cases adjectives do agree (Camões’ «minha senhor»). So, "Bom Bahia" is an error. ("Boa Bahia" is possible, but "Bahia Boa" is much more likely. Post-1911 spelling is "Baía".)


 * (I can add that Portuguese 15th century "Bombaim" seems to be an assimilation of the Maratthi (or Konkani?) word, whose pronounciation may have evolved with time; Portuguese "Calicute" is a similar case. Why a this change is felt needed but not, say, Lisboa/Lisbon or, as mentioned, Vienna/Wien, is an interesting issue, though hardely original.)
 * I'd asked a Portuguese user here in WP abuot the m/f gender. He confirmed that though Bom is incorrect, the masculine was also incorrectly used in the past. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  14:56, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Question here, does Mumbai rhyme with Bombay, or with 'goodbye'?
 * Goodbye would be closer. =Nichalp (Talk)= 05:07, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)


 * It is obvious that Bom Baía is not correct Portuguese because "bom" is masculine and "baía" is feminine. Though it was/is common that Portuguese-indian creole people speak/spoke this way. But I think that the name is from bom + baím. Being baím a sort of small bay because of "...im". The modern Portuguese word for small bay (cove) is enseada. Though I didnt found Baím in any dictionary, possibly because it is archaic.--Pedro 14:03, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, in the early 16th century it was evidently referred to by the Portuguese as Bombaim, which would support your idea, Pedro -- unless, of course, it's not a Portuguese name at all, as the Shiv Sena contends. kwami 12:28, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

It is officially "Mumbai," but most people refer to it as "Bombay." SNIyer12 (talk) 22:11, 5 February, 2006 (UTC)

Visited by thousands???
The caption on the first picture says, "The Gateway of India is the city's most recognisable landmark, visited by thousands annually." Thousands annually? That's what, 5 or 6 people a day? Surely that's supposed to be "millions annually"? --RoySmith 18:39, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Its difficult to pinpoint the exact figures as it is freely open to all. Millions could be correct, but if 900,000 people visit yearly, then the average is around 3,000 per day. The daily average goes up further considering that July and August sees heavy rains in the city, and therefore less visitors during that time. =Nichalp (Talk)= 18:53, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, then how about "thousands daily"? --RoySmith 19:34, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Better; changed it. =Nichalp (Talk)= 19:38, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

Inundated
Better word needed. Rich Farmbrough 22:45, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Rightly so. I can't get the apt word. I'm thinking on the lines of "fjord". Any better suggestions? =Nichalp (Talk)= 05:49, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * Fixed --> indented =Nichalp (Talk)= 11:08, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

Tone
Mumbai synergises western and Indian celebrations and festivals which are celebrated by all irrespective of religion.

The tone here seems inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. "Synergises"? I also doubt that everyone in Mumbai celebrates all of the holidays listed in the subarticle. Can anyone write a more accurate and appropriate replacement? I'm not familiar with the city. -- Beland 13:42, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I've toned it down a bit. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  13:54, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Massive floods in Mumbai
Why not page on massive floods in Mumbai? pradeepsomani


 * It's at the Timeline of Mumbai events, linked under the History section. I've added a direct link. -- Hongooi 06:52, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Image alignment
Most of the images are aligned out of the section they were added to. Some of this could be corrected by moving the image tag to the top of the section, but would anyone find using  offensive to force a proper alignment? This would stop the bleeding of images in and out of sections. I just personally find the section line marking being cut off by an image every time hard to focus on. The government table also has an odd floating position due to this. Laundrypowder 07:05, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * You're having the problem because of a high resolution. By default, all pages are designed for 800x600, the standard web resolution. By using the clear all syntax, many would find large gaps in the page. It comes down to personal preference really and I'm neutral on this. BUT during the WP:FAC process, the use of the BR tag raised some objections. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  07:45, July 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok then, no problem. I rarely scale my window down to 800x600 in size, but that or smaller is definately required to view it. Laundrypowder 17:32, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Population Density
I was wondering how the population density of Mumbai compared to that of other cities of the world. --Just my 2 cents -- Hemanshu 13:27, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Mumbai Population and Area
The population of Mumbai (2005) cannot be 17 million. The population of Brihan Mumbai (Mumbai city + Mumbai suburban), about which this article is mainly about, was 11.9 million in 2001 and spread over appx 460 sq kms. A jump of 5 million in 5 years is not feasible and a statistical improbabilty considering the current population growth rate. The MMRDA area of Mumbai had a population of over 16 million in 2001 over 3000 + sq kms. People seem to confuse the MMRDA population with the area of Brihan Mumbai. And the mistake seems to be so popular that even news media groups, famous bloggers etc. repeat the mistake, not to speak of world bank experts who forget to mention the area they are talking of when they mention projections like 22/28 million.

The infobox thus needs to be rectified to show the Brihan Mumbai area and Brihan Mumbai population in 2001.


 * The figure is referenced from here. The site is considered to be a credible source. PS Please do not add new posts up. by default in wikipedia new posts are added at the bottom. Use the + to add a new post. Thanks =Nichalp   «Talk»=  17:33, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Mumbai Population and area
I did use the '+' but it added the stuff to the bottom.

Thanks Nichalp. I checked out the site and the population is that of Mumbai Urban Agglomeration. They are right but Wikipedia is not in a way. Here is the explanation.

The confusion arises because Census India calls the Mumbai urban agglomeration as Greater Mumbai Urban Agglomeration. This is not to be confused with the Greater Mumbai Municipal Corporation. The Greater (Brihan) Mumbai Municipal Corporation covers only the two districts of Mumbai city and Mumbai suburban. Greater (Brihan) Mumbai Municipal Corporation had a population of 11.9 million in 2001 and had an area of 468 sq kms. On the other hand Greater Mumbai Urban Agglomeration includes Greater (Brihan) Mumbai Municipal Corporation, Thane, Navi Mumbai, Kalyan, Dombivili, UlhasNagar, Ambernath, Virar, Mira Road - Bhayander and many other towns and cities and had a population of 17.8 million spread over roughly what is the MMRDA area of over 4000 sq kms.

Please check this out http://www.mmrdamumbai.org/basic_information.htm

I find it pretty interesting that even reputable media groups make this mistake of confusing Greater Mumbai Municipal Corporation and Greater Mumbai Agglomeration population. The most recent one I saw was Lonely Planet which claims 17 million people in 468 sq kms.

In short:

Greater Mumbai Population/Area (2001) 11.9 million/468 sq kms Greater Mumbai Urban Agglomeration or better MMRDA population (2001) 17.8 million /4335 sq kms

While the World Bank has projected a population of 22 million / 28 million in the near future, it has not mentioned the area it is talking of. Unfortunately most people have assumed that they are referring to the 468 sq kms of the BMMC. The population growth rate in Brihan Mumbai area doesn't support the idea. The city distict had a 0.5% annual growth rate in the last decade. The Mumbai suburban district grew fairly rapidly but has almost no place left for growth now. Growth is expected to be higher in the peripheral towns and cities like Navi Mumbai. So that is where the extra population is expected to surge.

The next census is in 2011.

Hopefully I didn't bore you guys.


 * Ok the figures will have to be changed. PS Use a colon : to indent reply to a post. Click the [edit] links beside the heading on the right. The + creates a new post BTW. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  11:33, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Revert
I have reverted the recent edit wrt pic and the seasons. Temperature-wise there isn't much of a change. 36 in summer and 28 in winter. 32 for most of the year. So the best way is to classify it as dry and wet season. As for the elevation, 10 m is not really much. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  06:44, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

Map used in infobox
Isn't there any better map that could be used in the infobox? We don't need to represent neighbour countries to show the location of a city. A plain map of India, highliting the mumbai city, and maybe the capital, should be represented. CG 15:16, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * User:Dhwanit is marking locations of Indian cities. We can ask him for a simple one. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  15:22, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

The map shows parts of the state of Jammu and Kashmir belonging to Pakistan and China.
 * No it doesn't. It shows the control of the state by the above two countries. Please note the boundaries. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  13:41, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I have put in maps showing J&K in its entirity. Moreover, neighboring countries labeled in the maps should not be a problem.

I have added some detailed maps of Mumbai metro region, including Mira-Bhayander and Navi Mumbai. Any ideas on formatting and external links would be welcome

Pizzadeliveryboy 23:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Recent edits
=Nichalp  «Talk»=  06:58, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) The Sanjay Gandhi National Pari is a national park rather than a nature reserve
 * 2) Suburbs to describe Kalyan and Virar is less accurate. Township is more accurate.
 * 3) According to the Manorama Yearbook, the city handles half of India's passenger traffic. The same figure does not apply to cargo.
 * 4) Please do not remove the &amp;nbsp; and &amp;mdash;
 * 5) Removing extra details. THe transport stuff should go in the detailed article.

Page locked
The page has been locked to prevent an edit war.


 * 1) The BMC logo is of the organisation. It should be put under the BMC page not here.
 * 2) Mention the Wall Street on the Dalal Street page. This page is a summary and should talk about the city as a whole, NOT facets of the city.  =Nichalp   «Talk»=  14:14, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Name of language
Hi all:

The name of the language as used by the native speakers should be referred to. For eg., Bengali (the community) is the name of the community of people who speak the "Bangla" (not Bengali) language. Similarly, the Sikh Punjabi community would use the "Gurumukhi" (and not the Punjabi or Sikh Punjabi) script.

Anyways, the word 'Bangla' is now part of official Oxford and Webster English.

Pizzadeliveryboy 16:50, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, in the case of the Punjabi community (Sikh or not - most 'Punjabis' are not Sikhs), it would be better to simply label it 'Punjabi'. A parallel would be labelling all English words as 'Latin' script.


 * Bangla is a term that has gained more acceptance because Bengalis themselves have used it to refer to their language in English. Bengali is the common, widespread term used by most English speakers.  Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 18:55, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Graduation, not Matriculation - in response to Npindia's Education edits
Hi:

Matriculation means 'To admit or be admitted into a group, especially a college or university'. It is Graduation ('Conferral or receipt of an academic degree or diploma marking completion of studies.') which determines the size of the university, as a figure of merit.

Pizzadeliveryboy 23:24, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I wonder, how word matriculation slipped in. I am sure, I did not type it. But anyway, I will be careful. Thanks for a watchful eye. Law is a post graduate course, i.e. one can not take up law after 12th. Meanwhile, IIT, engineering and medicine can be taken up after 12th.

Ofcourse LLB can be studied after XII. cf. http://www.glc.edu/courses.asp

Pizzadeliveryboy 23:52, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Law degrees (LLB) can be both graduate or post-graduate level
Please note that the LLB degree (in ref to 'Education' section of article) could be a 3 year graduation course, conferring the LLB (Gen) degree for non-practising students after a 2 yr study, or a full LLB degree after 1 additional year of study for practising advocates.

The 5 year course confers a 'dual degree' of BLS, LLB. If you complete 3 years of study, a BLS degree is conferred. On completing 2 more years of study, an additional LLB degree is conferred. Both degrees are eqv in academic (though not professional stature), much like a B.Ed degree, which is a bachelors degree, but can be conferred only as a 2nd degree after the individual has acquired one primary bachelors degree (BA, BSc or whatever).

THIS DOES NOT QUALIFY LLB TO BE A P.G. COURSE ('cf.' npindia's edit remarks). THAT HONOR GOES TO LLM.

Pizzadeliveryboy 23:49, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Magicalsaumy's abridged edits
Magicalsaumy added:

'However, the population pressure of the daily commuters is becoming exceedingly high day by day; indeed, during most of the times during the day, most of the passengers find it difficult to even breath and stand properly in the heavily crowded local train, forget about getting a seat. The commuters' pressure especially reaches unmanageable pushing and pulling at the suburban stations of Dadar and Kurla.

As there exists no point of linkage between the Western and the Central suburban lines except Dadar (and Parel), in order to reduce the crowding, the state government and the Municipality have decided to construct an international standard Metro Suburban Railway, just as in Delhi (the existing suburban system is not at all upto the international standards). One of its lines would connect the eastern suburb of Ghatkopar with the western suburb of Versova. This is expected to reduce the commuters' pressure significantly.'

Perhaps an abridged version can be put up in the 'Mumbai Suburban Railway' article.

Any thoughts or initiatives???

Pizzadeliveryboy 00:31, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Add Bollywood to Culture section of Mumbai related topics section
How do you do this? I have added  to the Bollywood article, but there seems to be no effect.

Pizzadeliveryboy 01:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Lead section
The lead section is way too long. An easy way to shorten it would be to give the last paragraph its own section. It can stand on its own and users could more easily filter out information why this article isn't named Bombay but Mumbai. Markus Schmaus 02:16, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Architecture of Mumbai
There is no section on the architecture of Mumbai....esp the ref to the Indo-Saracenic, Neo-Gothic and Art Deco styles used throughout the last 200 years.

Any ideas????

Pizzadeliveryboy 15:29, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Transport
I have removed the main article link at the beginning of the Transport section since there is already one at the end of the section.

Moreover, the correct main article link should point to a more generic Transportation in Mumbai and not just the specific rail system - mumbaikars use both road and rail for commutes

Pizzadeliveryboy 16:49, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

The Municipal Arms and the City Officials
I have commented out these two images because they would be better placed in the article on the Municipal Corporation of Greater Mumbai. The Municipal Arms could be placed at the top of the Mumbai article unless anyone knows of other symbols which would be more appropriate. Green Giant 00:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

seal feature
The seal feature on the infobox is optional so should not the L&F of other city pages where such a seal is not available. I have removed the seal from the Civic Admin section. Any ideas on formatting are welcome.

Oops!!! Spoken too soon!!! Anyone has ideas???

Pizzadeliveryboy 00:56, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the update, the seal is much better where you've put it because a symbol of the city should be the first thing people notice in the article. As for formatting, it would be good to make some of the pictures on the right hand match the text on the left hand. Might not be possible for all pictures but readers might appreciate the text more if a relevant picture was adjacent. The other thing is the ward map is now out of date, because the map shows 22 wards, the text reads 23 wards and the official website lists 24 wards but this matter might have to wait for an appropriate map :) Green Giant 01:14, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Changes in format
I have changed the template for the main infobox from India Capital Infobox to the Mumbai infobox, so that the CoA does not mess up with other city pages. Anyways, since the template is static, should we shift the entire city officials infobox in Civic Admin section into the new main infobox, or leave it there?

The motto of BMC is given in its site. Is that the motto of Mumbai too. I know India has one!!!

Pizzadeliveryboy 01:27, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Infobox
I have reverted the infobox. The idea of having an infobox is to tailor data common to a set of related articles. In this case all cities have the same set of data and hence use an auto template to collect related information. Having an infobox specific to a single article defeats the purposes of such templates, and not to mention a waste of resources.

Also, please remember to use British English spellings, not American English. In a section, the main should come before images so as to align them with the paragraph. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  07:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Any specific reason for favoring british english?????


 * Pizzadeliveryboy 16:32, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

wards in Mumbai
there are 24 of them, cf.. However some of the links dont seem to work....need help in expanding the specific details of the new wards listed in the municipal wards aritcle.

Pizzadeliveryboy 19:50, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

GG's changes
Many of the changes were passive to active voice changes - which makes for easier reading - but this does not apply in all cases. So I have reverted a few changes, kept several of them, and tweaked a wee bit on some.

Pizzadeliveryboy 14:03, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for overhauling my overhaul, it makes better reading when written by two or more people :) Green Giant 20:04, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Demographics
It is understandable that everyone wants representation in the list of languages spoken in Mumbai, however adding every possible lang/dial/version will make the article unweildly and is impractical. Hence, it is better to keep only those languages based on actual census figures, which are from neighboring states (tho not a firm criteria - eg malayalam), and is a schedules language (that keeps out Angika - no offence meant).

Pizzadeliveryboy 19:58, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

no blogs
Please do not include blog links in references and ext link sections, since they are opinion pieces, and not verified or standardized works of journalism.

Pizzadeliveryboy 13:10, 31 January 2006 (UTC)