Talk:Municipal Affairs Bureau

Please discuss at the section below.

old
Macau was an overseas province of Portugal, and contains two cities, each with a council. The councils were scrapped after the handover. Like Hong Kong the Macau government try not to mention anything about the previous existence of the municipal councils.
 * Where is the evidence of this?--Huaiwei 13:01, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * That's history. Everybody familiar with Macau can tell.
 * Look up on English version of the government website of Macau, and look into the fact sheet. The same content on the original municipal councils is absent in the Portuguese version.
 * You can also search for &#28595;&#38272;&#24066;, &#28023;&#23798;&#24066;, &#24066;&#25919;&#24307; and &#33256;&#26178;&#24066;&#25919;&#23616; on any search engine.
 * I did check up that site for your information. And like HK, the purpose of these pages is to list contemporary urban areas with city status. If they are historical entities, then please state them in the Macau page, and not as a list here. For comparison, all other listings of cities in wikipedia refers to contemporary lists, and not ancient ones.--Huaiwei 13:10, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Then why they are no longer two cities, but two districts?
 * Because none of those sources indicate that they are still two cities today?--Huaiwei 13:22, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * None of those sources indicate they are no longer two cities, and are changed into two districts.
 * This feels like I am talking to a 3 year old, but mind showing us the exact sources (the URL page please) which indicate that Macau is made up of two independent cities today?--Huaiwei 17:48, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Seems like there's a 3-year-old talking to a 3-month-old. Didn't you say to me that you will revert to the original state of an article if it's controversial? What are you doing? Show the evidence that they've become districts, if you've any. -- 19:00, December 15, 2004, UTC
 * Lol! We shall see about who is older, when you are demanding for a "revert" in this article, after you have clearly read somewhere else that this page's creation is itself a controversial move by you to validate your controversial claims in other pages? In this regard, ALL these edits should be reverted, including the possible deletion of this page!

Cities?
I ask again...is it still relevant for Macau to be defined as a number of cities?--Huaiwei 09:59, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Requested move
(copied from Requested moves)
 * Talk:List of cities and parishes in Macao – List of cities and parishes in Macao &rarr; List of districts and parishes in Macau – - There was no hard evidence provided that the Concelhos in Macau were "cities", and Macau is not regularly refered to as a collection of cities. Even if they were for some reason, the handover to the PRC has resulted in an administrative overhaul which saw the municipal councils abolished, replaced by a central administration. The territory is no longer adminstered as seperate cities/towns/entities.--Huaiwei 05:58, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Oppose. They are commonly referred to as "&#24066;" in Cantonese, and they correspond to two cities. Although administratively they're no longer separate entities, they retain as two parts of the territory. I can compromise with moving to "list of concelhos and freguesias in Macao".  &mdash; Instantnood 08:33, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 22:56, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * "correspond" to cities? What kind of correspondance is that?--Huaiwei 08:13, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Huaiwei's edits
Huaiwei added   and category:Administrative divisions of the People's Republic of China to this article. The concelhos and freguesias in Macao are neither counties, nor part of the PRC's administrative divisions, as provided for in the Article 30 of the 1982 Constitution. &mdash; Instantnood 17:20, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * I seriously wonder if your recent bunch of text like the above is some kind of "report" or an initiation of a discussion?--Huaiwei 17:44, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Is Macau not part of the PRC? Are teh administrative divisions of Macau not part of the PRC? That the administrative divisions of Macau are not defined in the PRC constitution, because that role has been delegated to Macau, does not make the divisions not part of the PRC. What country are the cities and parishes of Macau an administrative division of? SchmuckyTheCat 18:21, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * In the first place, they are not even "cities" in the English sense of the word.--Huaiwei 18:38, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Please assume good faith, or ask a local. :-D &mdash; Instantnood 17:36, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Assume good faith refers to mindsets towards fellow wikipedians, and not on content. I have no idea what is the relevance of that in this discussion. And secondly, who is a local here?--Huaiwei 03:06, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Concelhos and freguesias are not part of the same administrative division system as counties in mainland China. &mdash; Instantnood 17:36, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Didn't you say that already? SchmuckyTheCat 20:07, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Concelhos
Re: - Were the concelhos abolished altogether with the municipal organs (Câmara Municipal de Macau Provisória, Câmara Municipal das Ilhas Provisória, Assembleia Municipal de Macau Provisória and Assembleia Municipal das Ilhas Provisória)? Or do the concelhos nominally remain with no official duty like the freguesias? &mdash; Instantnood 18:38, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Moving to Municipalities of Macau
Regardless of the discussion going on above, which I respect but was getting nowhere, I am going to move this article (yet again) to Municipalities of Macau, under the following rationale:

--maf 12:55, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) As of 2006 and since Macau became an SAR, there are no longer administrative divisions in Macau. No districts, no municipalities, no cities, no city councils, no parishes - whatever you call them, they were abolished. Only the seven-parish division remains, but for symbolic reasons only. The government of Macau administers Macau directly and as a whole, as I already wrote in Macau. If you question this, please start on http://www.gov.mo and check the laws and the organograms - it's a very thorough site, although, as someone already wrote, there's a lot of care in not mentioning the former status of anything at all.
 * 2) There being no more administrative divisions, the only purpose of this article must be to tell the history of the administrative divisions of Macau. I will rewrite it to reflect this purpose.
 * 3) Since the most important administrative unit in the Portuguese system is the municipality (not the province, not the district, not the parish, not the "city"), then "municipality" should be in the title of this article.
 * 4) Articles about administrative divisions tend to have their title standardised in Wikipedia. The standard title for articles about municipalities is "Municipalities of (country)" with, if necessary due to article-size considerations, a companion article "List of Municipalities of (country)". Cf. Category:Municipalities.
 * 5) The fact that Macau is not a country (and never was) should count against the title "Municipalities of Macau". However, that would leave the alternative of merging this article either with some article about the PRC or with article Municipalities of Portugal. Since this now is a historical article about municipalities created under Portuguese rule, it has nothing to do with the PRC, so that option makes no sense. But, since Macau was never part of Portugal (only a territory "on loan", pardon the expression) and since Municipalities of Portugal does not have a historical section, that option makes no sense either. So, Municipalities of Macau it should be, and I shall make it so now.

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051125111154/http://www.imprensa.macau.gov.mo/bo/i/1999/01/lei01.asp to http://www.imprensa.macau.gov.mo/bo/i/1999/01/lei01.asp
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.fotw.net/flags/mo-mau99.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051102025255/http://www.imprensa.macau.gov.mo/bo/i/1999/01/regadm06.asp to http://www.imprensa.macau.gov.mo/bo/i/1999/01/regadm06.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051122212726/http://www.imprensa.macau.gov.mo/bo/i/2001/51/regadm32.asp to http://www.imprensa.macau.gov.mo/bo/i/2001/51/regadm32.asp

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