Talk:Murder of Brian Wells/Archive 1

Bomb Explosion Video
I removed the link to it for three reasons. One, since it does not provide useful information concerning the situation and simply serves to distribute images of gratuitous violence. Also, because youtube.com will remove the video and the link will be dead. People who wish to watch Faces of Death videos, know where to find them (I know I do).

Sloppy Citations
Someone with more experience then I at fixing citations needs to go over this. Thank you. Veriss 20:00, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Fixed the Associated Press citation. Can someone check the citation from ABCnews (not sure if its just my computer) because I think the link is dead. --​​ ​​Dtbohrer​​​ ​talk•contribs 20:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The main citation that needs attention is the Cleveland Plain Dealer article referred to several times throughout the event section. I attempted to fix it so it referred to a footnote since it is referrenced several times throughout that section but was unfamiliar with the style of template used in this article.  Thanks Veriss 21:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

It took a few tries but I finally sorted out the Plain Dealer references. Other citations use differing styles and templates and it is beyond my current skill level to streamline all of them to properly refer to the reference list in the same manner as most of the others. Veriss 22:25, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Citation 9 is b0rked, whatever source that was there has somehow gotten lost. Someone who knows more about this article needs to fix. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LrdDimwit (talk • contribs) 07:37, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Video Issues
The video, even if the ending is fake, the beginning was a factual account of what happened--Cahk 10:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed the Youtube link, as the video was quite obviously a fake.
 * Youtube link was reposted, I removed it as well. If you want to put the video back, make it clear that the ending IS FAKE. Cite it and its contents properly and there should be no problem putting it there.Diemunkiesdie 04:30, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The Youtube video is legit, including the ending. A change in camera/camera angle does not imply a fake video.  It's a different camera.  Why is it so difficult to believe that there was more than one camera on scene?  Even Wells' car is in the shot.  I don't understand why you are claiming it's not real.Skyviper 19:06, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The explosion left a "fist-sized hole in his chest", not his entire head off. Marikina 05:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * What is your point? The video doesn't show his entire head being blown off.  Are you saying that the video is legit?152.119.108.85 21:51, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * the video on youtube isnt real,the video on AMW last saturday{7/14/07}was real(the censored part)and it showed it all different.(4tildes)
 * Actually, if you look at the video, Wells is not sitting up against the police car. In fact, here's a link to a picture of Wells sitting on the ground well and away from the Crown Vic.

http://kdka.com/topstories/Erie.Pizza.Bomber.2.389935.html

You can clearly see that he is not sitting directly in front of the car, rather several metres away. What's more, his shadow isn't visable next to the car. You can even see the door of his Siwft in the shot as well. I afraid that video is legit, it's ending too.--24.222.156.92 (talk) 03:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

THE VIDEO IS REAL. See the bottom of this page for my sources, the TV Station that shot the footage has admitted that their footage got leaked to the public somehow. Viewing all of the angles from video and still photos, and knowing the area in question, there is NO question in my mind that the footage is genuine. Coolgamer (talk) 22:00, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

General Discussion
I have no problem with people putting a news story and a fitting tribute on Wikipedia. But does this belong in Recent Deaths? This makes the page seem amateurish. I am sure he was a fine young man who was the victim of a horrific evil. Never the less, this is a place for people who are part of the larger global culture and DIED ON THE DAY listed. I am sorry, but this just does not belong here. I have no problem with Brian having an entry in Wikipedia in general, but not here, not several years after the fact. Diggerjohn111 19:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Was this the inspiration for the movie Saw?
 * That's exactly what I thought when I heard about this - it reminded me of Saw or Phone Booth. Battle Ape 13:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've thought this for years, anyone have any info on this?

Hello all. I am a fellow coworker of Brian Wells. IF someone rewrties this biography, please do not start off with a mean and degrading sentence. I am very close to brian wells. Closer toi Mr wells then anyone has been. I LOVE WELLS AND I HOPE THE KILLER WILL BE CAUGHT.

IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO DEGRADE WELLS AGAIN, PLEASE DO SO I CAN COME KICK SOME ASS YOU ROTTEN PEOPLE.
 * "high school dropout" is not degrading. bd2412  T 01:18, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

This is really messed up. I always love a good mystery like this, but god...

Sharkface, thanks for re-adding a Battle Royale reference. Some moron deleted my BR reference on Dec 10. Acr01 02:48, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Whoever keeps removing the Battle Royale reference is really dense. Just because it was released before the Brian Wells event does not make it irrelevant. BW does not have to influence BR; who's to say BR didn't influence BW? The scenario is too similar to dismiss and it's not like this kind of crime happens with any regularity. Acr01 10:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Similar Prior Event
I recall that a woman in Israel/Palistine was killed by a collar-bomb a few years before the Brian Wells event and Battle Royale. Does anyone have any further info on this? Asteroceras 02:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Cite sources
I'm pretty sure I remember hearing there was not enough time to complete all the tasks layed out in the letters, but it does need to be cited by a published source. I've been looking for articles and transcripts myself, but haven't found anything yet. Do you remember what Dateline episode backed this up? Please see WP:CITE Hoof Hearted 15:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I read in the magazine "DER SPIEGEL" that Wells hadn´t enough time to complete the tasks. Dagadt

Current Event Tag
Should it be removed? It does not seem like a current event any longer ... Any thoughts? (JosephASpadaro 20:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC))


 * I removed it; if there are any important breaks in the case, it can be put back. -​​ ​​Dtbohrer​​​ ​talk•contribs 23:31, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE
there are new devolpments in the case,some one was arrested,this is the info i found and where i found it,feel free to incorporate it into the article.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3361781&page=1

By CHRIS FRANCESCANI ABC News Law & Justice Unit July 10, 2007 Font Size Nearly four years after one of the strangest murder cases in federal law enforcement history, authorities appear poised to announce indictments in the case of the pizza bomber as early as Wednesday, sources tell ABC News.

Sources say the indictments will center on a former high school valedictorian with bipolar disorder who is believed to be the ringleader of a bizarre Pennsylvania bank robbery gone bad. What remains vexingly unclear is whether pizza-delivery man Brian Wells was involved in the plot in any way.

In late summer 2003, Wells walked into an Erie, Pa., bank wearing a bomb attached to his neck by an elaborate, locked metal collar. He was also carrying a gun disguised as a walking cane.

Cornered by police in a nearby parking lot after the robbery, Wells said that armed gunmen had locked the bomb around his neck and sent him into the bank. Police seized a multiple-page note full of instructions that told Wells to move swiftly to a variety of seemingly unrelated spots around the area or the bomb would detonate.

"Why is nobody trying to come get this thing off me?" he yelled to authorities as he sat handcuffed near a police car. "I don't have enough time."

He didn't. With a small crowd gathered that included curious media, the bomb exploded, blowing a hole through Wells' chest and killing him instantly. He was 46 years old.

The case has taken numerous twists and turns over the years, and investigators have acknowledged at times that they were simply stumped. This week though federal authorities are expected to announce indictments, sources close to the case tell ABC News' Law & Justice Unit.

Valedictorian Turned Robbery Ringleader? Monday, a federal public defender for a woman named Marjorie Diehl-Armstrong filed court documents trying to prevent the government from holding a news conference to announce indictments. A spokesperson for the U.S. Attorney's office in Pittsburgh, which is handling the case, declined comment, as did federal public defender Thomas Patton's office.

Diehl-Armstrong, a high school class valedictorian with multiple graduate degrees who suffers from bipolar disorder, has long been a main target of the investigation. While law enforcement sources tell ABC News Diehl-Armstrong has cooperated with investigators, she is still expected to be charged in the case, possibly as its ringleader. _____________________________________________________________

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_516508.html Baffling Erie collar-bomb case takes new twist

By Jason Cato TRIBUNE-REVIEW Tuesday, July 10, 2007

The nearly 4-year-old mystery of who used a collar-bomb to kill an Erie pizza delivery man soon might end, according to a lawyer for a former teacher expected to be charged by federal authorities.

Marjorie Diehl-Armstrong, 58, who is in jail for another killing, is likely to be indicted for the August 2003 death of Brian Wells, federal public defender Thomas Patton said in court papers filed Monday in Erie. Wells was decapitated when a bomb strapped around his neck exploded shortly after a bank robbery.

"Ms. Diehl-Armstrong has not yet been charged; however, it is anticipated that an indictment will be forthcoming shortly," Patton wrote in a request for a gag order to keep prosecutors from holding a news conference to announce the charges. Patton declined to comment.

"Due to the extensive media coverage that has occurred to date, it is reasonable to conclude that any press conference would be heavily reported on in the media," Patton wrote, noting attention shown the case by USA Today, "America's Most Wanted" and Geraldo Rivera. "Ms. Diehl-Armstrong submits that any public discussion of any forthcoming indictment would prejudice the potential jury pool in this case."

U.S. Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan declined to comment. In February, she said the investigation was nearing an end.

Wells, 46, left Mama Mia's Pizza-Ria about 2 p.m. the day of his death to deliver pizza to a remote location, which turned out to be an abandoned television tower. About 40 minutes later, he showed up at a PNC Bank branch outside Erie, handed a note to a teller and raised his shirt to show the bomb.

Police stopped Wells two minutes after the robbery. A series of notes found in Wells' possession gave explicit details on how to rob the bank and survive the experience -- including instructions to go to three locations within a specified time to retrieve keys and a code to disarm the bomb.

"Alerting authorities, your company or anyone else will bring your death," a handwritten note read. "If we spot police vehicles or aircraft you will be killed."

The bomb exploded while officers waited for a bomb squad.

Investigators have spent years trying to determine whether Wells was a victim in the bank robbery plot or participated willingly. Wells' death has remained a mystery in part because several people connected to the investigation died since the incident, Buchanan has said.

Diehl-Armstrong, formerly of Erie, is serving 20 years in state prison for killing her roommate, James Roden, whose body was discovered stuffed in a freezer in September 2003. Diehl-Armstrong pleaded guilty but mentally ill.

She was charged in 1984 with the death of her boyfriend, Robert Thomas. She was acquitted of the homicide charge but convicted of carrying a firearm without a license. She received probation.

Jason Cato can be reached at jcato@tribweb.com or 412-320-7840             412-320-7840                    412-320-7840. __________________________________________________ http://brianwells.net/

US Federal Government Ordered the Beheading of Murder Victim Brian Wells

19 Hours after the bomb locked around Brian's neck exploded, the bomb experts said they still could not render the collar harmless.

So with this knowledge Federal Law Enforcement Agents, the FBI, ATF and Pennnsylvania State Police decided the best way to proceed would be to take Brian's body to the coroners office in the Erie County Courthouse and remove his head, rather than unbolting the collar or cutting the collar in two pieces.

There were five representatives of law enforcement at the coroners office, but they did not have the courtesy to allow Brian's 75 year-old mother, to pay her last respects to her son.

This is one of the many reasons why I, John Wells and many others do not place a lot of faith in the Law Enforcement Officers involved in this Investigation.

The Family was not permitted to say their last farewell to Brian Wells They were allowed to bury a group of body parts wrapped in cloth.

__________ Listed Below are the first four Pennsylvania State Troopers that failed to help Brian D Wells They also refuse to speak with any Family Member. Brian Was Murdered while in their custody.

Bomb Squad not called for over 30 Minutes while Brian was interrogated. Brian was in police custody for 46 minutes.

Brian was alive and breathing, fighting for his life after the bomb exploded. Brian was denied Emergency Medical Treatment.

Inadequate Officers

Trp Stafford Trp Weible Trp Dawdy Trp Szmanski _____________________ Ongoing Grief

You can only imagine what heartache and sorrow I experience on a daily basis because of the unsolved murder of my brother Brian, who was forced into a collar bomb and made to play the role of a bomb hostage. This evil crime still sickens me and it’s incomprehensible that it happened here in our community – Erie. Who could have planned and implemented such an inhumane crime, which has devastated our family and changed our lives forever. We live with ongoing grief and heartache. Questions as numerous as the stars have yet to be answered. What is the reason why we and the public cannot see what my brother Brian said and did within the bank? We are disturbed and hopeful each time there is a write up in the newspaper or on T.V. regarding our brother’s murder. We are disturbed because our brother had no involvement in this bizarre, unheard of crime and yet law enforcement, the FBI and State Police continue to lead the family and the public to wonder and believe that probably Brian had something to do with this. This is wrong and a grave injustice to Brian and to our family. How would anyone in our community respond if it were your loved one who was portrayed as possibly involved when he/she was simply an innocent person, victimized by a group of strangers who chose to kill that day? Can you imagine this injustice has been going on for almost three years? When I ask the FBI, “What prevents you from clearing Brian’s name?” They respond, “I can’t answer that.” They have no evidence against Brian yet they continue to portray Brian’s role as possibly involved. This kind of investigation makes my stomach turn. My faith in this case ever being solved in Truth and Light is slim. From the beginning of this crime we have been treated with disrespect from law enforcement. First of all, they failed to notify our family of Brian’s death until after 11:00p.m. at night, when Brian died at 3:18p.m. and they knew of his identity even earlier than this. Doesn’t that just boggle your mind and make you wonder what’s going on? I guess they were just all shook up that they let an innocent man die in their custody and didn’t even attempt to offer Brian assistance. Brian wasn’t even given a chance by law enforcement because they were frozen in fear on the scene. They were baffled, confused and scared to death. They didn’t think to call the bomb squad immediately when they knew a live bomb was secured on him. Why? Why? Why? They knew and believed it was real because they hid behind their squad cars pointing guns at my brother Brian as he sat handcuffed pleading for help, expressing this wasn’t him, and that it was going to go off. Law enforcement failed my brother Brian on that day and they didn’t even come forward to any family member and convey what Brian said to them while in their custody. Why? Why? Why? Will any law enforcement officer please come forward now and talk with our family about what Brian said to them that day? We simply want closure, we want to know for peace of mind and heart. Put yourselves in our shoes. Wouldn’t you want to know if this happened to a family member of yours?

These are Questions that need to be addressed now.

1. What new protocol if any is in place now?

2. How is a person, who is forced into a bomb hostage situation supposed to respond to try to save his/her life and the lives of others?

3. Can we now expect law enforcement to immediately call 911 and dispatch the bomb squad at once to try to disarm a bomb, to give the person hope of survival, especially if secured upon a person?

4. What is the profile of the killers?

5. What were the motives of the killers?

6. Can outside handwriting analysts look at the notes to help determine who wrote them?

7. Can new investigators come into this with open mindedness to follow the evidence leading to those responsible?

8. When will the identities of those who conceived this evil and carried it out in our community be revealed to the public and brought to justice?

9. Will everyone continue to pray for us and with us? And pray that this crime can and will be solved soon.?

By : Jean Heid ( Brian’s Sister) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.46.49.98 (talk • contribs) 18:41 UTC, 10 June 2007


 * You do know you can add it yourself. --​​ ​​Dtbohrer​​​ ​talk•contribs 12:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

From what I can gather... the crime has pretty much BEEN solved. 71.74.13.4 21:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Redirect
There should be a redirect to this page from "collar bomb case". The term has caught on in the media.--71.194.128.49 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. I also created a redirect for pizza-bomber as well. Veriss 01:07, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Page Split
Feel the page should be split. Once you get past the intro, the article is more about the actual turn of events and not really about Wells. --​​ ​​Dtbohrer​​​ ​talk•contribs 11:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose he was only notable for the one event that ended his life. If anything, we should have an article about the events and redirect this there.  --rogerd 12:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll buy that. What should the new name be? I was thinking "Erie Collar Bomb case". --​​ ​​Dtbohrer​​​ ​talk•contribs 12:51, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose (both split and rename), articles like JonBenét Ramsey, Ronald Goldman, Scott Peterson, and Armin Meiwes seem to set a precedent for including single-notworthy events in an article named for the victim/perpetrator. Hoof Hearted 15:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose (both split and rename), as per rogerd and hoof. Travb (talk) 11:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose split, though I would not have a problem with renaming the article to "Erie Collar Bomb case" and redirecting the current name there - someone searching for the person would be searching because of the case. bd2412  T 20:09, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. As rogerd so well puts it, he was only notable for the one event that ended his life. Terry Carroll 20:24, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'm starting to get the picture that Wells isn't notable enough to have his own page, but moving/renaming the page is still a possibility (one with which I don't have a problem). --​​ ​​Dtbohrer​​​ ​talk•contribs 20:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, my opinion is that Wells is notable enough to have his own page, and it's fine as it currently stands. Hoof Hearted 13:11, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Unsourced info
I moved this unsourced info to talk, since it is repeated, in abbreviated and sourced form, in the 2007 section:
 * At the press conference, authorities also revealed that they believe Wells himself was complicit in the robbery plot which ultimately took his life. At one point during the press conference, shouting broke out in the back of the room.  This shouting was in response to an assertion that Brian Wells was forced to wear the collar bomb which killed him, but because he carried through with the bank robbery (even though it was under duress), he is still considered a conspirator in the crime.  The spokesperson for the U.S. Attorney's Office also indicated that Wells had played a minor role in the planning of the bank robbery, but that he was not the mastermind behind the crime.

Travb (talk) 11:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

New Info
I found some interesting information that should be added to the article. I'm working on other things on other things and don't have time to add it. Later if I have time I'll add it.

--​​ ​​Dtbohrer​​​ ​talk•contribs 01:39, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

"three black men"
A sentence in the article reads "he was to claim that three black men forced the bomb on him..." Apparently some editors do not like this and edit it to "three white men", "three mysterious men," etc. I suggest we keep it to the correct facts, which is that his claim was to be that it was three black men. This isn't a racial slur, no one is saying there actually were three black men. But it is what Wells was instructed to claim, and should not be changed.

The fact that Wells was instructed to make the claim is well-cited, and the newspaper article in the footnote, found at reads:


 * As the robbery plan crystallized, the group pulled Wells in with a lure of cash. Wells helped plan the robbery, authorities said, and his partners told him the bomb would be fake. If arrested, he was told to tell police he was a hostage and that three black men [emphasis added] had forced him to do it, Buchanan said.

He was not instructed to claim it was three white men, or three mysterious men. He was told to claim it was three black men. Stop messing with it. Terry Carroll 01:33, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

"Popular culture" and "Media Attention"
There is no need whatsoever for two sections so I merged the former with the latter.

Just doing my bit to clean up the amount of garbage "popular culture" sections that pollute wikipedia. Eica (talk) 21:47, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Graphic footage is real. Here's proof.
CBS News. "Graphic video footage depicting how Wells died has appeared on Web sites and has popped up in e-mail inboxes. The images of the exact moment of Wells' death have not been televised. Most stations have chosen to show footage of Wells sitting on the ground shortly before the bomb detonated, as police surrounded the 46-year-old pizza deliveryman following the Aug. 28 robbery of a PNC Bank branch near Erie. However, a one-minute clip shot by an Erie television station has been turning up on the Internet. The station's news director said he was aware that the video footage was being circulated, but neither he nor his colleagues know who leaked it or how. (CBS/AP)"

Photo from America's most wanted of the aftermath.

The full leaked footage, the version previously posted was cut off. Coolgamer (talk) 00:21, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Link's broke, I think I might have backed it up. Have to check. Coolgamer (talk) 22:05, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6a4_1184278789 Coolgamer (talk) 22:12, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Battle Royale
I'm deleting the passage referring to Battle Royale. Battle Royale came out as a book in 1999, and as a film in 2000, well prior to this incident. The incident did not influence the book. Despite the substantial investigation and multiple court proceedings, there has never been any suggestion that Battle Royale ever influenced the perpetrators. It really has nothing to do with Wells or this incident. TJRC (talk) 21:32, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Requested move (April 2011)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 17:53, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Brian Wells (bank robber) → Brian Wells — Is the primary topic. Marcus  Qwertyus   07:08, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Minor footnote in criminal history. Not famous enough to be a primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 19:49, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose; no evidence or argument provided that this is the primary topic. We need more than a mere assertion. TJRC (talk) 20:59, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Not crazy about the current title, but doubtful that this subject is the primary. bd2412  T 03:27, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 91 views vs. 3614 isn't a primary topic? Marcus   Qwertyus   02:02, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * So far as I understand, Wikipedia page views are not the arbiter of a primary topic. What we seem to have here is a disambig page listing three very minor figures, two of whom are exact matches for the name, neither of whom is primary in the sense that it's the first one that comes to the mind of the average person hearing the name. bd2412  T 14:32, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Page views are not the determining factor per se but there is a high correlation.  The WP:PRIMARYTOPIC criteria is "the subject being sought when a reader enters that ambiguous term in the Search box."  One topic is primary when it is "much more likely than any other, and more likely than all the others combined—to be the subject being sought when a reader enters that ambiguous term in the Search box."  Page views are a combination of these direct searches, redirects and links from other pages.  For obscure figures, such as these three, links from other pages is probably low.  Redirects can be counted individually.  So page views can gives us a general idea of what readers are searching for.  Since one article, this one, has 97% of the page views in 2011 between the three of them, it is probably getting the vast majority of direct searches.  Especially when one considers that this term would rarely come up for the cricketer since he used the "Bryan" spelling and was mostly known by his nickname which is both the article title and the name used in most of the non-obituary links there.  So only users using his lesser known given name and misspelling it come to the disambig page now, surely a small minority.  Even if we assumed all of the page views for the other pages came from direct searches for "Brian Wells" and only half of the views here did, this article would still have 94% of the direct searches.  Since PRIMARYTOPIC suggests that a mere majority can be enough, I think this article undoubtedly meets the requirement and I support the move.  --JGGardiner (talk) 20:34, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Still 97% of an overall very small market. You make some good points, but I remain largely unswayed. bd2412  T 20:57, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move (August 2011)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Page moved to Brian Douglas Wells. Concerns were what to use as a dab and the late discussion was to use his full name as it is used in the article and for which we have existing links. No consensus that he is the primary article. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:54, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Brian Wells (bank robber) → Brian Wells – Current title implies that he was a bank robber by his own will, yet he was a victim that was forced to do that. So either shorten it to his name only or add (crime victim) instead. 188.60.224.77 (talk) 19:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Support Primary topic. Page views: 85, 37,909. Marcus   Qwertyus   19:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose We just had this discussion a few months ago. (See above). The US Attorney named him as a co-conspirator and said at trial that Wells was involved in planning the heist. Changing the label from "bank robber" to "crime victim" would be inaccurate. As for making him the primary topic, I'm inclined to side with the previous view that page views alone is not sufficient reason to make this a primary topic. Anson2995 (talk) 20:58, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose Whether forced or voluntary, the subject still robbed a bank. Don't agree with making a move based on making it sound more politically correct. NJZombie (talk) 21:13, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * comment just because he did something doesn't mean we necessarily disambiguate it based on that. See Sarah Brown (wife of Gordon Brown) for instance. Someone suggested replacing it with "public relations" (since some people think it's a bit offensive to disambiguate based her marriage status) since she is in PR, but this was shot down because nobody knows Ms Brown as a PR person.  Likewise here, I don't think most people think of Wells as primarily a bank robber (not like Bonnie and Clyde for instance), but more of the bizarre collar bomb plot. hbdragon88 (talk) 03:27, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You mean the bizarre collar bomb plot that was a part of the bank robbery he committed? NJZombie (talk) 00:28, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose Whatever the merits of moving this may be, we can't move it to plain Brian Wells, as there are 2 other people of this name. It is not obvious that one bizarre incident makes him more notable than a figure skater and a cricketer with some perfectly respectable achievements in the course of their sporting careers. PatGallacher (talk) 16:45, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, if the consensus is that the subject of this article is indeed the primary topic for "Brian Wells," we certainly can ans should move it to just plain "Brian Wells". The web page Brian Wells (disambiguation) would list all of the Brian Wellses, and the top of this article would include a hatnote that would alert readers to the fact that there are other persons of the same name covered in Wikipedia.
 * A great example of this (with a more obvious primary topic) is at Neil Armstrong and Neil Armstrong (disambiguation). TJRC (talk) 00:53, 10 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The question really is, what is he most famous for? Not for robbing a bank per se, because if that was the whole story he likely wouldn't merit an article at all. Rather, he is known for the collar bomb. To be fair to the point raised in the original proposal, I propose moving this to Brian Wells (collar bomb) or Brian Wells (collar bomb case), or something like it, so that the connection to the famous element of the event will be retained in the title. bd2412  T 16:55, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note, also, that there was some discussion above of moving this to Erie collar bomb case or the like, since the focus of the article is really the event itself more than the central person. bd2412  T 18:02, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I think "Erie collar bomb case" would be too bizarre and nobody would ever Google that or even think to search that (how many people know that it took place in Erie?). I think we should try to retain the name in the title of the article. I agree that he is best known for the collar bomb – but it seems awkward to use that as a disambig. hbdragon88 (talk) 00:49, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Neutral I'm neutral on the move to "Brian Wells".   This was previously discussed (see "Requested move (April 2011)," immediately above), My position then was "Oppose", because at the time I made my comment, the proponent had provided no basis for the move except the conclusory opinion that it was the primary topic, without providing any support for that position.  No one else had done so, either, at the time I had commented (I apparently did not revisit the discussion once someone had).  But now, the number of page hits is a significant factor that has caused me to rethink this, and I am now dropping my opposition.  I am not moving to "support" only because another metric, page links, favors Brian Wells (figure skater) as primary; there are 17 non-DAB articlespace wikilinks for the skater compared to 4 for this guy; i.e., > 4x as many.
 * I oppose a move to an event-based title as well, because, notwithstanding WP:ONEEVENT, there are times when the resulting article name will be awkward and more difficult to find, and neither the reader community nor the editor community would be well-served by that. This is one of those times. TJRC (talk) 00:35, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There are an additional 10 more article-space links for Brian Douglas Wells. Marcus   Qwertyus   00:45, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Good catch; so make it 17 for the skater and 14 for this individual; that's close enough to call it a tie. But your catch leads me to another suggestion: perhaps the best article name would be "Brian Douglas Wells", avoiding the parenthetical completely. TJRC (talk) 01:02, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

New Vegas: Dead Money
Really? I don't think that the aforementioned DLC has anything to do with this atricle, bar a passing resemblance. I request we remove. And yes, I followed it's respective link, and there was no talk of Brian Wells in the Article.--86.164.91.60 (talk) 17:51, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

One last dead link
I've gone through and fixed all the instances of dead links and citations needed; except for one dead link:


 * Statement: "Kenneth Barnes (who was imprisoned on unrelated drug charges at the time) was also charged without disclosure of the specific crimes."


 * Reference (dead link):

There's no available archive for this link, as far as I can tell, and I don't see another source for the assertion. Anyone have one? It's the sole remaining citation issue in the article. TJRC (talk) 23:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Why was no one charged with murder?
The article desperately needs an explanation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.91.94 (talk) 00:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Diehl-Armstrong a prostitute?
Marjorie Diehl-Armstrong was a lot of things, but no one ever accused her of being a prostitute. 64.179.99.173 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:08, 7 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Fixed. TJRC (talk) 01:18, 9 August 2013 (UTC)