Talk:Murders of Kate Bushell and Lyn Bryant

Misleading lead sentence
The first sentence of the article lead says the subjects of the article "... were a child and a mother murdered in separate, high-profile incidents ..." This is misleading, as it suggests that the victims of these two murders had a familial relationship to each other. But the only relationship I can find is that the two victims were killed in very similar circumstance and Police have speculated the killer was the same person. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 09:16, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes fair enough I was trying to think of a way of describing them without calling them "two women" murdered, since Bushell was just a child. I've tried to address it by changing it to "two females", but I'm not sure this is much better? BarehamOliver (talk) 10:09, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The fact that you were having trouble trying to write a good first sentence may be symptomatic of the rather tenuous link between these two murders. While the Murder of Kate Bushell and the Murder of Lyn Bryant are each separately notable, this article probably needs to have a concise title that describes the notable common factor(s). So a title like the West Country murders may be too vague, one like the West Country dog-walker murders would possibly work. But the other naming criteria means one needs to recognize such a name in the sources, too. With only two, or possibly three, similar murders linked and with the evidence that links them being fairly tenuous, finding a name is difficult. Also it is difficult to justify that such an article would even be notable. Just as one can draw a straight line between two points, so it is easy to connect two murders based apparent common factors and similarities. However, trying to do this between three murders, quickly highlights many inconsistencies and what may seem to be similar between two cases often can be explained as coincidences as the investigative net stretches wider and more cases with similar factors are considered. I recently saw an article about some serial murders in Memphis between 2011 and 2015 where the evidence of a serial killer seems far more plausible, but that article has similar problems, in my view. I think it is better to write separate good articles about each murder and mention the connection in each article. If it later turns out there is a common perpetrator, then an article can be written about them. Until that happens, the police and reporters, simply don't know. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 08:52, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Split into two articles
When writing articles about A Wikipedia essay about Murder of ... articles indicates this form of title should be used when there is a single criminal event and one or two people are killed simultaneously. However, if writing an article about a person notable for a single event, such as a victim of a notable murder, then the article should be written about the event. But the naming conventions and various guidelines and essays indicate that each murder should have a separate article. Trying to link these two crimes together would only make sense if the Police had formed the view that was a serial killer involved and this article was about that person. However, Police have not done that, they only speculate these murders might be linked because they happened in similar circumstances. The articles should be split. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 09:17, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi there, yes fair enough you make several good points there, my apologies. I considered creating two separate articles when creating the content, but I considered that since police have so openly and consistently linked the murders, that it could justify them being put together, as long as it was pointed out that it is by no means certain that they are. I judged that it was a bit more than just speculation the police had in linking them, with the two murder investigations working together at the time for instance. Also part of their notability can be accredited to the fact that they were suspected to be linked and there were fears as a result that an unidentified serial killer was at large. However, I totally take your point and if you feel they should be split I have no problems with that. BarehamOliver (talk) 10:07, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Splitting proposal
I propose that the article be separated into Murder of Kate Bushell and Murder of Lyn Bryant. Whilst the cases are similar, we have no concrete information that the cases are definitely connected, and both could have different perpetrators. The way it is at the moment is misleading.

I suggest at the top of the new articles we mention the similar nature of the other murder and that there have been considerations that they are linked. Icaldonta (talk) 14:59, 28 June 2024 (UTC)