Talk:Murders of Thomas and Jackie Hawks

This article is poorly written due to the retroactive use of female gender in the timeline prior to her gender identity change, which makes it somewhat confusing to read. Prior to the legal change in 2019, it would be proper to use the male gender in the article since they were identifying as a male at the time of the crimes and into the prosecution timeline, or make a notation to clarify what is written. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:5619:100:F964:4D77:B8C2:F8E3 (talk) 04:10, 24 December 2021 (UTC)


 * either way he is still a man. He should be referred to as such, as with all situations.
 * Also, when did we start to respect to horrible people? 2600:1014:B11F:4F46:404A:A076:B402:5DD5 (talk) 02:19, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

(removed transphobia) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.112.191.24 (talk) 13:29, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Like it or not, Wikipedia has a policy regarding gender identity. $chnauzer 15:17, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * And calls criticism of it ‘transphobia’. Anyone who disagrees with them, is crazy, you see. 2A00:23C7:E287:1901:59F:3C81:3B81:E00E (talk) 16:41, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Revamp
Wow, someone needs to revamp this article. I'd be willing to do it, but I'm kinda busy now. Anybody else up to it? --Enrgy (talk) 02:16, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I've reinstated the redirect. At the very least, I'd expect a fully formatted article by those who want an article on Deleon himself. Nevertheless, the valid objection that Deleon is notable solely for the murders would still stand even in the case of a half-way acceptable article here. 78.34.136.182 (talk) 03:45, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * This article really needs a revamp, yeah. I don't have enough information on it to revamp it, but it's nigh impossible to get through. -- talk) 16:51, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, this needs a rewrite. Confusing at times at best. If no one else wants to, I guess I will do it in the coming months if no takers. comment added by 49311 (talk • contribs) 20:32, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

(removed transphobia) Cjtaylor65 (talk) 19:01, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Disrespect to the Corp
The term "Awol" is an Army term not a Marine one. It is a blatent disrespect by both the media and those who feel that the term is correct. As a former Marine I find the term a slap in the face. Regardless of what the citations say. The citations got it wrong.--Jojhutton (talk) 13:55, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Over an acronym word? Really?  I mean, if it were a word related to something that has affected you I can understand, but this is very... weird to someone not in the armed forces.  I might be mildly huffed, but not consider it a "slap in the face".  But then again, I'm not in the armed forces.  Maybe I just don't understand.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.194.146.50 (talk) 16:54, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * A Marine is not a soldier. Therefore should not use Army acronyms when refering to the Marines. I understand that to someone who hasn't served that this might sound silly, but to Marines its very serious.--Jojhutton (talk) 17:01, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * So what's the proper term for a Marine who goes "AWOL", if "AWOL" itself is an improper term? Thanks.   (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:13, 11 April 2009 (UTC))


 * It's UA. That stands for Unauthorized Absence.--Jojhutton (talk) 22:03, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks.  (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:48, 11 April 2009 (UTC))

Every service has its ways. If ‘UA’ is right for the Marines, then that’s what the article should say. 2A00:23C7:E287:1901:59F:3C81:3B81:E00E (talk) 16:43, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Clarification
Deleon was on only one episode of Power Rangers, and that as just an extra. The wording that was here beforehand made Deleon out to be a regular on the show, which he was not. Confusing statements like this have left many confused as to Deleon's actual role on the show and has led many to believe that one of the actual stars was a murderer. I have fixed this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.119.50.88 (talk) 18:16, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw what you did, and I don't disagree. You made a good deletion.--Jojhutton (talk) 19:04, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Not notable at all
Would better be suited as an article on Wikinews, not Wikipedia. This article's "claim to fame" is just the murderer was on an episode of Power Rangers. --Phil1988 (talk) 01:19, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * See the above tag, at the top of this page. This article was nominated for deletion on October 21, 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.  Thanks.   (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 02:02, 12 April 2009 (UTC))


 * I would be inclined to keep it as well. Based mostly on the henious nature of the crime and the huge amount of media coverage, and not on the alleged notability of the killer.--Jojhutton (talk) 03:54, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't forget ... this is an article about the murder of Thomas and Jackie Hawks ... it is not an article about Skylar Deleon ... although, of course, Deleon appears within the body of the article as he was a key player in the subject of the article (namely, the murder of the Hawks). Thanks.   (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:53, 13 April 2009 (UTC))

Who is Kennedy?
Someone named "Kennedy" is mentioned three times in this article before we even get his first name; we never really get an idea of what his role is here, who he is, or where he came from. I'd fix it myself but I have no idea who this is. --Free-world (talk) 01:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * His name is (actually) John Fitzgerald Kennedy (no relation to the former President, I am sure). Kennedy was a gang member; he went along for the boat ride, pretending to be Deleon's accountant.  Kennedy participated in the murder plot and its execution.  He was sentenced to death for his role.  Thanks.  (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:25, 10 April 2011 (UTC))

Art
I've found a few works of art relating to the case; the pieces concentrate on Skylar Deleon:

-Mardus (talk) 14:04, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Three drawings by Anthony Cudahy and
 * at least one by Hello Little Fish at Flickr.

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081010005928/http://www.latimes.com:80/news/local/la-me-deleonold1,0,6683554.story to http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-deleonold1,0,6683554.story
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081110100734/http://edition.cnn.com:80/2008/CRIME/11/06/yacht.killings.ap/index.html to http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/06/yacht.killings.ap/index.html

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090210113934/http://www.ocregister.com:80/ocr/sections/local/local_columns/article_632770.php to http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/sections/local/local_columns/article_632770.php

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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/20081007/skylar-deleon-039-power-ranger-039-yacht-killing-case-underway.htm
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Misgendering of Skylar Deleon
I apologize if my edits were done incorrectly or need cleaning up. Skylar Deleon identifies as a woman and prefers feminine pronouns. Normalizing the misgendering of people as a punishment for their actions normalizes transphobia. I'm not sure if the pronouns were deliberately wrong or if this just fell through the cracks. Thanks.

Ellie.Michaels (talk) 10:38, 25 October 2020 (UTC)


 * At the time of the murders, Skylar was in-fact a man. Misgendering him at that time and referring to him as a her (he as she) is misleading and not- factual and frankly IS mentally unstable. When referring to him AFTER he was LEGALLY made a female is 100000% appropriate and acceptable and not mentally unstable. The references to it before the transitions ought to be reverted back to "he or him" if only because it defies logic and sanity to refer to him a female when he was male at the time of the murders. Dudeinoside (talk) 15:30, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

(removed transphobia) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:5800:7D80:753E:A71B:E42A:7B53 (talk) 07:18, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 August 2021
(removed transphobia) 2601:3C9:180:2760:158C:EAF5:2841:CF15 (talk) 20:34, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: They identify as a woman so we use those pronouns. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * (removed transphobia) Edsanville (talk) 15:00, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
 * At the time of the murders, Skylar was in-fact a man. Misgendering him at that time and referring to him as a her (he as she) is misleading and not- factual and frankly IS mentally unstable. When referring to him AFTER he was LEGALLY made a female is 100000% appropriate and acceptable and not mentally unstable. The references to it before the transitions ought to be reverted back to "he or him" if only because it defies logic and sanity to refer to him a female when he was male at the time of the murders. Dudeinoside (talk) 15:33, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, one can be a logical and intellectual, preferring to see things logically and scientifically, and NOT be transphobic. The same goes for statements made that are simply based on logic and science - those too can be wholesome and not based in transphobia. You can't simply characterize things and people you don't agree with, or you don't like as something malicious, doing so only sheds light on your own mental and/or intellectual shortcomings... Dudeinoside (talk) 15:36, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * This article was difficult to read because I thought Skylar was woman at the time of the murders and that didn't match with the photos I saw.
 * So maybe clarify at the start of the article. 49.205.255.114 (talk) 14:09, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

(removed transphobia) 2601:647:5800:7D80:753E:A71B:E42A:7B53 (talk) 07:19, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

(removed transphobia) --81.109.120.75 (talk) 15:01, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 November 2021
(removed transphobia) 220.253.82.205 (talk) 17:02, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

No. Like it or not, we have a policy on gender identity |here, including pronouns on transgender individuals.$chnauzer 17:12, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Then the policy ought to change. It's self-parodying for an article to include the words "her penis" (I guess unless it's about a hermaphrodite). I also shared the experience of the reader above who describes the article as "difficult to read"; eventually the repeated reference to Deleon using feminine pronouns becomes simply annoying, but initially it's confusing. 173.166.60.89 (talk) 12:52, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree, the policy needs to change to make the article easier to read. Alielmi1207 (talk) 18:29, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Is Skylar Deleon still on death row in California?
According to this article (at the time of this writing), Skylar Deleon is on death row at San Quentin State Prison. However, as far as I can tell, Skylar Deleon is not (at the time of this writing) listed in this list of death row inmates from the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. Are we sure that Skylar Deleon is still on death row in California? Heart of Destruction (talk) 14:57, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Surname
If a murderer changes their surname after the crime and conviction, should we refer to them by their new surname throughout the article? cagliost (talk) 11:04, 1 May 2024 (UTC)