Talk:Murphy bed

Photo
There's a photo of William Lawrence Murphy here: https://www.wallbedsbywilding.com/blog/2016/09/16/murphy-bed-love-story/ I'm too busy at the moment to add it. --Pronsias (talk) 08:44, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Murphy bed
--Pmchanjr 18:57, 25 February 2006 (UTC) Here's a link to the USPTO page where I found the original images of the patent. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=49,273.WKU.&OS=PN/49,273&RS=PN/49,273 I don't know how to add this link to the file, but will be watching this page (if someone would like to do it for me) to learn how.

THIS IS MY FIRST EDIT TO WIKIPEDIA!!! TIEVOLI Murphy bed is Space saving furniture product. By using this product you can save a lot of space in your room. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.216.105.160 (talk) 07:16, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Reqimage/Reqvideo
An animated gif of the thing would be useful, or a photo of a partially deployed one. Maybe, if some of the ancient silent films have fallen out of copyright, some vidsnippet can be uploaded illustrating one. 65.94.77.11 (talk) 11:19, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Hazards
So, I think it's fair that there doesn't need to be a separate "hazard" section, but there is reliable source coverage of beds collapsing on people, and that's a phenomenon worth mentioning. As for your examples, I don't see why our article on bathtubs doesn't mention slips and falls or drownings; that's an oversight if it's never made it into the article, and certainly, oven hazards ought to make it into that article as well. Safety is an important aspect of industrial design for household appliances and furniture; there's nothing unencyclopedic about it, and the fact that it is (putatively) obvious that Murphy beds could be hazardous doesn't mean we shouldn't mention it. Chubbles (talk) 19:11, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I actually think that the hazard of being somehow folded up and suffocated is worth mentioning, because it's perhaps not obvious, but for that we'll still need an RS discussing that as a generality for this type of product -- two "freak accident" reports are not enough. But simply that something really big on hinges might fall on you if it's improperly installed is patently obvious, just as improperly installed cabinets might come down on you, an improperly installed garage door might land on your foot, improperly installed attic stairs might come loose and drop you on your ass, and so on; those things simply aren't worth mentioning unless, I suppose, there's some source discussing that, somehow, murphy beds are peculiarly susceptible to this kind of mal-installation. A good contrast is Garage door openers, which really do have peculiar hazards which have attracted substantial discussion and even regulatory intervention. EEng 19:31, 25 May 2018 (UTC) P.S. According to family tradition, my great aunt Ruth, who was an infant at the time of the San Francisco Earthquake of 1906, was on a murphy bed at the moment the shaking started, and my great-grandmother threw herself on it to keep it from swallowing her baby up.
 * I'm also of the mind that yes, anything can be dangerous, and highlighting that this is a potential "hazard" isn't necessary, and as such suggest removing the line "When attempting to pull a Murphy bed down from the wall, if not installed properly, it is possible that it could collapse on the operator." The sourced notes about the drunk guy and the other incident I might suggest moving to the In Popular Culture section. Echoedmyron (talk) 19:47, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I wasn't going to bring it up, but without secondary sources tying it together and explaining its significance, the inpopcult stuff doesn't belong either -- it's just a laundry list of OR. EEng 20:55, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This book has an extended discussion of Murphy bed usage in physical comedy, much of which is based on the perceived danger of the furniture. I am requesting the book from my library so that I can cite it more fully, and will continue looking for more sources on the matter. Chubbles (talk) 16:51, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Good wprk! That's exactly the kind of source we needed. EEng 17:55, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

The Sims
This sentence was recently removed: "In the PC video games The Sims 2 and The Sims 3, Murphy beds have the potential to kill playable characters, an allusion to the hazards of pulling them down." This is an interesting continuation of the movie sight gag into new media, though it's not much remarked upon in criticism (other than a passing mention in this). That at least establishes it against a WP:V claim; if anyone digs something up discussing it as part of gameplay, I'd love to see this content restored. Chubbles (talk) 04:44, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * What's needed is a secondary source explaining how the appearance of murphy beds in a video game helps the reader better understand them. EEng 04:47, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Name
This article was at "Murphy bed" for years, and was recently changed to "wall bed" and then quickly to "pull-down bed", on grounds that Murphy bed is little-used outside of America. It's not yet evident that any of these other terms are better established, nor if there is one that clearly stands out as the general term. Most of the sourcing in the article uses the term "Murphy bed", though most of it is North American in origin. I am curious what article name is used in e.g. encyclopedias outside of North America that cover this topic. Chubbles (talk) 17:07, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Both of these moves were made by the same user without discussion, based on unsubstantiated claims. Please explain. Echoedmyron (talk) 01:26, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Apologies, I was too quick here, and should have made a discussion. It was a bold move. The assertion of Murphy bed being a more well known term in North America is based on the lead statement in this article and history section of this article, but it may very well also be a well known term in other English speaking countries as well. I stand by that I mean Murphy bed is a poor article name as it tells me nothing intuitively about the subject; I will have to open the article to understand what it is about, while pull-down bed is self descriptive. By searching online, both appear to be common names. It may be argued that Murphy bed is a more common name. If it can be demonstrated that Murphy bed is a better name, I will have no objection if the move is reverted. I will tread more cautiously in the future. Sauer202 (talk) 10:19, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm having trouble finding many other resources that call it other things. Most of the coverage is American; it's an American invention, and so well-known under the name that it's trademark-genericized in the USA. I'll move it back, though if further sourcing comes to light it'd be valuable to revisit. Chubbles (talk) 13:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * There's a practical problem with the pagemove, so I'll put in a request at RM. Chubbles (talk) 13:59, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 29 January 2022
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 14:43, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Pull-down bed → Murphy bed – This appears to be the most common name of the item. Most available sourcing uses this term; it is the most common term used in the United States, where the item was invented; this usage is common enough that in the USA the trademark has become genericized. Technical restrictions are preventing an ordinary pagemove from occurring. Chubbles (talk) 14:01, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. —В²C ☎ 15:03, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:35, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:18, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Additionally support making the terms pull-down bed and wall bed redirects to Murphy bed. As an aside, during the recent renamings, the title "wall bed" was changed to "pull-down bed" by Sauer202 because "Wall bed may be confused with a bunk bed" - which I should note is not at all likely as bunk beds are an entirely different thing. Echoedmyron (talk) 22:53, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * +1. —В²C ☎ 04:54, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: Bunk beds usually extend up along a wall, so I stand by my assertion that wall-bed will be confusing to some, especially to non-native English speakers. I also want to clarify that I did not introduce the term pull-down bed, it has been listed as one of many alternative names in this article for over ten years. Sauer202 (talk) 17:37, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
 * My point was that it was a silly reason to provide - bunk beds are two (or more) bed platforms stacked above each other. The opening line of this article states that the subject is "is a bed that is hinged at one end to store vertically against the wall". That does not equal "bunk bed" in any way. Echoedmyron (talk) 18:06, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You may think that is silly, but I felt wall bed was ambiguous, so then why use that when you can choose a title that is both descriptive and unambiguous? As I replied to you further up, a point of having intuitive article names is that you shouldn't have to open multiple articles and read each of their openings to find the one you are looking for. It may be a language issue, but whether you think that is silly is totally fine and up to you. Sauer202 (talk) 19:01, 30 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Support per nom and all of the above comments. Facts707 (talk) 04:35, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: According to WP:COMMONNAME, it is acceptable with "Natural disambiguation: Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title". Pull-down bed is also a more descriptive title in my opinion, especially to non-native English speakers. I don't know if these can be regarded as reliable sources, but pull-down bed is used in this Spanish source (in English) and this Czech source (in English). I'm not contesting that Murhpy appears to be the most common name in English, but it appears US centric and I want to mention that this is an international encyclopedia where many readers are not familiar with such terms, and pull-down bed serves as a natural disambiguation. Also, in general I can't stand genericized trademarks when there are perfectly usable generic names. Again I'm sorry I didn't take this discussion first, and have no problem if it is changed back. Sauer202 (talk) 17:37, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:NATURALDISAMBIGUATION does not apply in this case because there is no other article with the title Murphy bed, thus no disambiguation is required. Rreagan007 (talk) 05:22, 31 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment. I assume the current title was adopted because the term "Murphy bed" is not commonly used outside North America. On the other hand, I'd be interested to know how common these things even are outside North America in the first place. I've certainly never seen one in the UK or anywhere I've visited in Europe. I'm only aware of their existence through American films and I only know the term because it's in the lyrics of one of the songs in Sunset Boulevard and I looked it up to find out what the hell it meant! -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:28, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, here is the Google Ngrams for "Murphy bet" and "pull-down bed" restricted to just British English sources. As you can see, "Murphy bed" is the far more common term even in British English. Rreagan007 (talk) 05:09, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 * From what I can see, most of those sources are referring to America, even though they may be British publications. As I said, not a common thing in the UK. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:40, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support per nom. Showiecz (talk) 12:53, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Workmen installing a wall bed illustration
The photo with a caption "Workmen installing a wall bed" seems to be unnecessary: it does not show the bed or its installation. I propose to remove it. Викидим (talk) 06:36, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree, it does not show anything particularly noteworthy about the process, and in fact if one was not told it is a wall bed one might assume it is just a generic cabinet. Echoedmyron (talk) 11:31, 28 January 2023 (UTC)