Talk:Muscat (grape)

Discussion header
I've done quite a bit of cleanup, but the article needs much more work, expansion, and cleanup. I'll try and get to it as my time allows. I merged in the "Moscatel" article, and in the process dropped quite a few of the extraneous asides about Moscatel de Setubal, etc that could not be easily incorporated into concise article. This information may be reincorporated, but only if it can be incorporated in neatly. A separate page on Moscatel de Setubal might be a good solution, but only if enough material is added to justify a separate article. Peter G Werner 07:55, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Could I request that a little information about what the grapes actually look be included? It says they range in color, so I think this should go under the listing of the different species. --66.37.246.163 14:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

white or red?
A basic attribute of the wine which is not explained is whether it produces red, white or mixed colored wine. May seem obvious to you, but I'm completely in the dark. Wiki is for laymen and it's helpful to put the most basic information first and most prominently. NaySay 14:30, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Quotes
These quotes were under references. I moved them here because they seem like trivia to me (and were misplaced under references). RJFJR (talk) 16:51, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

"Madame, I never eat muscatel grapes." The Count of Monte Cristo. Alexandre Dumas.

"Out in front of the Terminal bar there's a Thunderbird moving in a Muscatel sky". 'Nighthawk Postcards (From Easy Street)'. Tom Waits.

Distinguishing properties?
What properties make a grap a muscat grape? Thea rticle says it is a family of species of grapes but not how they are distinctive. RJFJR 20:53, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Why this title?
Why is this article named "Muscat (grape and wine)" rather than just "Muscat (grape)", which seems to be the accepted naming convention of most grape variety articles? Tomas e (talk) 19:30, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll chime in. Why? It seems the change was just done boldly 2 years ago without explanation, apparently in conjunction with adding a wine section. This doesn't seem to me a sufficient reason for the anomaly, just makes instinctive navigation on wikipedia a little more difficult, so I'm all for changing it back. I may even boldly just do it myself.  M URGH   disc.  20:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

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muscat vs port
is there a difference, why does a newman WA outlet, that constantly serve indigenous persons, copious quantaties of all types of alcohol. and yet I'm unable to purcahse muscat, because she deems it's the same as port response to fba-newman@hotmail.com would be very welcome —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.72.172.4 (talk) 05:04, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Dogfish Head beer
It should be noted that the Beer "Midas Touch Golden Elixir" produced by Dogfish Head brewers is crafted after the Midas recipe and brewed with white muscrat grapes.

24.38.162.189 (talk) 01:47, 10 July 2009 (UTC)shotakawa

Midas
Concerning the entry..."Indeed, scientists from the University of Pennsylvania have analyzed pots excavated from King Midas's burial mound to conclude that Muscat was a major component of the alcoholic beverage served at his funeral feast...", it should be noted that the supposed burial mound of "Midas" is a matter of dispute. Rather than being stated as a conclusion, it should be reworked, if not removed, to reflect that fact. Dr. Dan (talk) 05:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Illustration
The illustration needs to be replaced - those are not Muscat grapes.218.14.49.243 (talk) 13:29, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * ok, done it.218.14.49.243 (talk) 13:32, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Biological Classification
I changed "family" to "variety" since the biological classification system goes Family->Genus->Species, so the "family" of Muscat cannot be part of the "species" Vitis vinifera. However, upon further reading one of Jancis Robinson's books is cited as the source that Vitis vinifera varieties descended from the Muscat family, which has me wondering: biologically, is Muscat a different species from Vitis vinifera? I checked out "Wine Science" by Ronald Johnson, which seemed to suggest that Muscat is a variety of Vitis vinifera, but it wasn't explicit.

Color of grape and wine
It seems to me that the word, blanc, used to describe the color of the berry skin in the infobox, means white or colorless. The illustration is of purple grapes. Would an english word serve better for the color of the grape? White wine can be made from purple grapes. Is muscatel wine white? The article seems confusing. --Fartherred (talk) 06:34, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

History of Muscat grape
I removed the précis' statement about Midas, as it was copied directly from the source (www.wineaccess.com/wine/grape/muscat) and also seemed besides the point. There could be historical evidence of the Muscat grape's usage that date even earlier than the time of the real King Midas (circa 700 BC); but I'll let professional historians provide an edit on that point.

The statement about Midas and the U.of Pennsylvania wouldn't belong in the précis anyway. The article perhaps needs a section on the history of the Muscat grape. If one is added and the statement about the PA. research team makes a return, then there is a better source to quote than the one listed previously (listed above). That second source on the Web is found at:

http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/current/node/1057

vstar3000 (talk) 01:57, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Orange Muscat in New Mexico
Orange Muscat is also grown and used for desert wines in New Mexico. Ds77 (talk) 05:58, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Muscat, Oman which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —70.51.46.39 (talk) 05:39, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Etymology
Just pointing out what two German WP articles have to say about the name: It's related to the common Early Middle Age Latin name for nutmeg, which was nux muscata which turned into noix muscat in Medieval French, and in the 13th century, Bartholomeus Anglicus derived the name muscat for the grape or wine from it in his Liber de proprietatibus rerum. Both nutmeg (nux muscata) in commoners Latin and the muscat wine originally acquired their names in relation to their specific fragrance of Latin muschus ("musk") (derived from Greek μόσχος and that in turn, according to Walde & Hofmann, Lateinisches etymologisches Wörterbuch, is derived from Vedic or Sanskrit muskah, "testicle(s) of the musk deer"). So both nutmeg (nux muscata) and the muscat grape were originally named after their musk-like fragrance. --79.242.203.134 (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

A 'family'??
Per the first line of the article, since Vitis vinifera is a single species, it makes no sense to refer to these varieties as a 'family'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.139.182.135 (talk) 00:50, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

"...a black-skinned table grape variety from the Greek islands known as Axina de Tres Bias. Rarely seen outside of Greece, Axina de Tres Bias (also known as "Heftakilo") is also grown in Malta and Sardinia." The name "Axina de tres bias" is on sardinian language (grapes with three lives), I don't think they use this name in Greece. The Greek names are: Eftakilo, Heftakilo, Heftakilos, Heptakilo. https://vitisdb.it/varieties/show/1577 https://glossario.wein.plus/axina-de-tres-bias-2 62.10.75.130 (talk) 17:42, 20 September 2023 (UTC)