Talk:Muscovado

Untitled
This is my first edit, be kind to me. :) Kamileon 04:35, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

The muscovado, also known as "muscovade", has also a light liquorice flavour. It´s conglomerate like form can be reshaped if broken in grains. It derives from the first pression or "en cru".

"regular" brown sugar
Re the caption on the picture: there is no such thing as "regular" brown sugar, there is dark and there is light, at least in my part of the world. Which kind is the "regular" in the picture?--Ericjs (talk) 03:24, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The caption is still the same and I just thought exactly the same thing, a term such as "regular" needs qualification, there are many different types of brown sugars, but none, to my knowledge, named "regular".Anonymous watcher (talk) 14:46, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

discussion about combining
I just finished reading both "brown sugar" and "Muscovado", which I navigated to from "brown sugar". Personally, I like that they were separate. I often prefer shorter articles with just the information I am looking for, rather than long involved multi-subject explanations. I was interested in finding out more, some people may not, therefore having the detailed information about "Muscovado" included in "brown sugar" would have been too much information for some. Also, it allows for more specialty editors. I like there are good links within the articles. More information is always available.


 * Keep the two articles separate. There is enough here to have its own article, wio the brown sugar article. Benthatsme (talk) 17:29, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Please remember, not everyone wants to know everything at once.184.101.55.244 (talk) 09:39, 26 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Admittedly, some may find opening multiple articles cumbersome. Others, like myself and 184.101.55.244, above, find it less cumbersome than having to scout around (often back-and-forth) within one longer article.--Chris Madden (talk) 18:30, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Khandsari and Khand names in the beginning
The art of making muscovado originated in India, which has 8000 years old history of making muscovado and other types of sugar from the sugarcane since 6000 BCE (see references within the article). India is also the largest producer and consumer nation of Khand (muscovado) and most people are unfamiliar with the term muscovado even if they know English language. For these reasons (inventor nation, longest history of making it, largest producer and consumer nation), please retain this term khaand right at the beginning of the article. The name 'Khaand in the largest speaking Indian language Hindi has been included in the beginning of the article. There are other names in various other Indian languages. Hindi is the largest and most widely spoken language, hence only the Hindi language name has been kept in the beginning. All other Indian language words and the word in other nations languages, please do not include other name variations in the beginning, instead include those in the "Names" section below. Khand (muscovado) and Bhoori shakkar (brown sugar) are two different things in Indian culture. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2404:E800:E61E:452:5B9:8D31:953B:E4DD (talk) 22:40, 15 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, this encyclopedia is in English, but this includes Indian English as well as US and British English. The normal Indian English name for this type of sugar should be in the lead. If there is a common alternative name in Indian English then it can also be given. We shouldn't give non-English names in the lead. A Google search indicates that Khandsari (with a single 'a') is common, but I only found a few pages with 'Khand' or 'Khaand'. None of these words are in the big edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. Do you have access to a reputable dictionary of Indian English?


 * Khandsari – Khaandsari and Khand – Khaand are close enough for us to not give the alternative spellings.


 * I will change the lead sentence to:
 * Muscovado, also Khandsari and Khand, is a type of partially refined to unrefined brown sugar with a strong molasses content and flavour.


 * We have a disambiguation page at Khand. If you are sure of your facts then please create redirect pages at Khandsari, Khaandsari and Khaand. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:01, 16 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the explanation, I agree to all your suggestions as they all make sense, just retain Khandsari and khand only. Also, thanks for reviewing as well as for already rephrasing. I am very sure of the facts. Khandsari is the formal spelling used by the apex association of sugar producers of India. Most english language books on this topic and Indian research journals found on google books and google journals use this spelling Khandsari. This term is also used in the formal english language, such as commodity prices in the printed newspapers, radio and tv news. The term Musovado is not known in India. Khand is better known and more widely used words for the day to day use, ordinary people use this term to search for. I did create that disambiguation while making edits yesterday, I have modified the disambiguation page again to make it easier to use and less confusing. Please help me by creating a quick redirect from Khandsari. Thanks in advance. PS: I have added the Production methods and Food sections, but am still not satisfied, specially these two could be further improved, any help is appreciated, please go ahead and take a stab if you have time. I will also try to research more information on these. Thanks. 2404:E800:E61E:452:3975:8AA8:CB3:F650 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:44, 17 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I have created redirects at Khandsari and Khaand, but not for Khaandsari which appears to be less well established.


 * I tried to delete most of the Definition section, but you are currently working on the article so I will do this later. We don't need the names in multiple languages (Wiktionary is the place for this) and the history discussion largely repeats what is in the History section.


 * I am dubious about "calories 275 to 380" per 100g. Muscovado is probably well over 90% sucrose. The sugar article gives a reliably-sourced figure of 387 kCal/100g for white sugar, and muscovado is probably almost the same. We give two sources for the nutritional figures: One is a dead link. The other gives figures for jaggery which is a different substance, and its source (ayurtimes.com) does not look dependable. I plan to remove any figures sourced for jaggery. If I have time I will check the other citations for nutrition, as fringe dieting and health websites are often unreliable. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:02, 18 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for creating redirection. And about the calories count, go ahead and remove the current figures, no worries, lets try to find better reliable figures. 2404:E800:E61E:452:3975:8AA8:CB3:F650 (talk)


 * Also, about the images for the production method I have inserted, the process is same for all the unrefined sugars, only the end process changes, I have inserted only those pictures until the point where the manual process is same. Still needed to find pictures of the two non-traditional production methods, such as granulation by centrifugal method and spraying. Thanks in advance. 2404:E800:E61E:452:3975:8AA8:CB3:F650 (talk)


 * About the names and history section, I suggest we leave the names in there. Because, other types of sugars have Codex Alimentarius international standard definitions, muscovado does not have any such standardization, leading to much confusion. Due to this, and compared to other articles, a lot more clarity is needed here in the definitions. Though it could be cleaned up. For example, Jeffe Weller source mentions jaggery as a name for muscovado in India (its not true, I had already removed India from the article), South Africa, Kenya and Nigeria. Which does not seem right for these other nations too, but I can not vouch for it. This leads me to believe, Jeffe Weller might not be an expert source on this. We clean up the names and definitions, or leave it unresolved until some standard comes up. Other editors could also refine further who have the better country specific knowledge than we do, some of those might not be on english wiki but other languages wiki. 2404:E800:E61E:452:3975:8AA8:CB3:F650 (talk)

Filipino Bibingka and Indian Meethe Chawal
This is to further explain that the Indian Meethe Chawal (literally 'sweetened rice') is similar to the filipino Bibingka, similar but different. Just to preempt any discussion, differences are (a) Indian sweet rice is made from from the locally grown "long slender grain" rice varieties such as Basmati, whereas Bibingka is usually made from the locally grown "short and thick grained sticky rice". In the Indian recipe, each rice grain remains separate. In the filipino recipe the sticky rice is lumped together in the form of cake. Both are traditionally prepared from the unrefined jaggery or muscovado, but these days people also use regular refined white sugar. 2404:E800:E61E:452:3975:8AA8:CB3:F650 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:14, 18 June 2017 (UTC)


 * This is straying too far from the topic of Muscovado. The image caption only needs to say what is pictured and why it is relevant. I think we now have too many images of food made using Muscovado / Khandsari / Khand. I think one sweet and one beverage is enough, I suggest we keep the picture of Besan Laddu, as this is best of the photos, and also the the picture of tea and coffee. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:27, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * ok. keep those two pics, I suggest go ahead and delete the fourth pic, and move the "Meethe Chxwal"/Bibingka to nutrition section, that way article is more relatable to several cultures. Bear in mind 58% of consumption and production is in India, hence the article is India heavy. Will be nicer to get some bilingual spanish/portugese editors to review as well to capture stuff we have omitted. 2404:E800:E61E:452:3975:8AA8:CB3:F650 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:46, 18 June 2017 (UTC)