Talk:Muse (clan)

Is this the same as the Isaaq sub-clans, e.g. Sa'ad Muse, Issa Muse? If so I think this should be re-directed to Isaaq. It partially duplicates the text that is in the Isaaq article, just that the name and time frame are different (unless there is more than one Arabian patriarch entombed in Maydh). For example, this statement appears in Isaaq: "According to early Islamic books and Somali tradition, the Isaaq clan was founded in the 12th or 13th century with the arrival of Shaykh Ishaq ibn Ahmad al- Hashimi from Arabia, one of the Prophet Muhammad's early followers." Compare it with the following statement from this article: "According to Somali tradition, the Reer Sheikh Muse clan was founded in the 11th or 12th century with the arrival of Shaykh Muse ibn Ahmed Muhammad al-Hashimi from Arabia, one of the Prophet Muhammad's early followers."

Furthermore, the citation appearing in this article was incomplete. I believe it refers to http://www.worldcat.org/title/arabic-literature-of-africa-voliiia-the-writings-of-the-muslim-peoples-of-northeastern-africa/oclc/495460328/viewport. I am not certain this is correct, but it's the closest match I could find, based on the given information. However, if this is the correct source, then it does not support this article's text.

If this is indeed about a different clan (i.e. distinct from Isaaq), then this should be moved to Muse (clan) for consistency's sake.

-- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:49, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * "Muse" here appears to be an allusion to the eponymous common ancestor of the Sa'ad Muse and Issa Muse sub-clan patriarchs. Through the agnatic descent tradition, they were presumably brothers and descendants of Sheikh Isaaq. That would explain the alteration of material from the Isaaq wiki page -- the date of arrival, history and tomb described above are actually those of Sheikh Isaaq himself. A re-direct to the Isaaq main page is indeed therefore indicated. Middayexpress (talk) 08:41, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Verifications of both Somali sheikhs are numerous Shaykh Muse is separate clan from Shaykh Isaq clan. Both Shaykhs have similar and different stories 1. Both Shaykh, they came from Arabia on different era 2. Both Skaykh, they arrived same location on different time. 3. Both Shaykh, they were buried same location, but Shaykh Isaq tomb was erected by his people. 4. Shaykh Isaq have wider history than Shaykh Muse at this moment 5. Shaykh Isaq clans have great population than Shaykh Muse clans 6. Shaykh Isaq clans history is detailed, but shaykh Muse clans history was disparaged through unknown propogand — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zekeria Osman (talk • contribs) 12:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That's all well and good. However, as Gyrofrog explains above, the sources don't support that description. Most of the text is just a copy and paste of Sheikh Isaaq's history (which it clearly shouldn't be if, as you indicate, Muse is an unrelated individual). You need to find ones that actually establish Sheikh Muse's separate history. Middayexpress (talk) 17:22, 4 February 2012 (UTC)