Talk:Museum of Pop Culture/Archive 1

weasel
The bit about supporters and detractors is very much against Avoid weasel terms, and needs a quote. Anyone mind pitching in? - Mys  e  ku rity  07:16, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * in response: in this case there are supporters and detractors and a large amount of each. In such a case, it is legitimate and non-weaselish to identify both sides of the argument, and sumarize each.  We could use a little more on Allen's behalf, though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.6.51.14 (talk • contribs) 23:54, December 24, 2005.

Although meta-museum discussion regarding Paul Allen and museum income probably has a place in the article, it would be nice if someone with information would talk about the exhibits. From a one-time visit a few months ago, I can recall an extensive collection of guitars covering the entire history of the instrument, a vast collection of Jimi Hendrix memorabilia of all sorts, a collection of music promotion artwork, a room dedicated to actually playing instruments at kiosks and in soundbooths, sculptures, and of course a walkthrough of music history with a strong focus on Seattle and Washington state...the large hall/stage area was hosting a Radio Disney contest, so I'd imagine that the facility hosts enough events that they're worth a mention. --24.23.84.46 07:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that the article is heavy on the weasel words. I received this book: ISBN 156466077X when I became a member a little while ago.  I'll try to gather more information about the exhibits themselves rather than continue with the "he said, she said". Cacophony 01:06, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Big Ugly Things
Cut from article: "The EMP was also mentioned a[s] the next possible target by a parody video by City Hall entitled 'Committee to Save Big Ugly Things' along with mention of the original 'Queen Anne Hill Blob', which was torn down."
 * "a parody video by City Hall": A parody of what?
 * Who or what is "City Hall" in this context? If this is a comedy group, I've never heard of them. Or does it mean to say that the video purported to be by City Hall, in the sense of the city government? And if that is the case, who was the video by?

- Jmabel | Talk 07:57, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

The video was produced by the office of the Seattle mayor, if memory serves. It was designed to promote Mayor Nickels' proposed replacement of the Alaskan Way Viaduct with a tunnel. It's not really significant to the EMP, though.

Art and money
With reference to the DoubleTake exhibit, we have a statement in the article "In an effort to raise more funds, museum organizers are using Allen's elaborate art collection to create an exhibit within the confines of the EMP." I think that is probably true, but I haven't been able to find a sources that says so in so many words. I've added the closest thing I found. If someone has a source that says that more precisely, please cite. - Jmabel | Talk 08:34, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

The Hemorrhoids
The claim that the nickname The Hemorrhoids "may derive from the fact that it sits a short distance from the base of the rather phallic Space Needle" sounds farfetched to me and is uncited, so I have cut it, while leaving the nickname, for which I've now provided citation. - Jmabel | Talk 09:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Citation
In the last hour or so I've cited for about half of this; would someone else like to take on the rest? - Jmabel | Talk 09:08, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

satellite views

 * I uploaded these two images today, both are the same image but one is cropped closer. They both have their virtues but I added the one with the space needle to the article. DVD+ R/W 23:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Official website
The official website empmuseum.org was revamped August/September 2012. Evidently the earliest available archive version of empmuseum.org is 2011-05-16..
 * August 14
 * September 3

P.S. The Internet Archive uses a BETA version of new software (FAQ).

--P64 (talk) 18:53, 19 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I repaired one reference adequately using the Internet Archive. That is now ref #8 concerning the Science Fiction Hall of Fame.
 * Three other refs were broken by the website redesign, now #4, 6, 21. For convenience of other editors (and perhaps readers), I replaced them with references that provide relevant targets in the archive but I did not check them for adequacy.


 * The previous, 2007–2011 domain name empsfm.org now redirects. Under that name the entire archive spans 2007-08-21 to date. 2007-08-21 version
 * --P64 (talk) 21:26, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Other
On my last visit I covered all references to the official museum websites (four generations) and the old SFHOF site. Currently those are #5, #7-17, and #30 --they number 13, all working thanks to Internet Archive.

Today I covered the other 17 of thirty references: rescued 3 via Internet Archive, marked 5 dead, and confirmed that 9 original links are working.

I expanded some of the refs, and rearranged some to make them more uniform in format. --P64 (talk) 01:58, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Template:Sfhof
I have created and documented a template sfhof (visit the documentation) and inserted one instance in Roger Zelazny. That code works anywhere in Wikipedia:

links to Zelazny's SFHOF biography and displays this.

By default the name value is the title of the article where the template is used, which is sometimes adequate. Visit the documentation.

By editing the template itself, the display can be changed uniformly wherever it is used. For example, to say simply "Roger Zelazny in the Science Fiction Hall of Fame", or to change the wikilink if and when the SFHOF gets its own article here. --P64 (talk) 17:59, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The SFHOF member biographies may be unavailable at the new version of EMPMuseum.org (next section). I found myself redirected to information about EMP membership.
 * So I revised the template (diff) so that it targets EMPMuseum.org at Internet Archive ... namely, a 2012-07-22 snapshot. I do not know whether this recovers all links to sfhof member biographies.
 * --P64 (talk) 18:53, 19 March 2013 (UTC)


 * If I recall my previous work correctly, as a few tests seem to confirm, then I previously added this template to our biographies of SFHOF members with surnames A to L.
 * If so then surnames M to Z remain to be done.
 * [working notes exported to User space] --P64 (talk) 22:44, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

All 69 biographies include the template. --P64 (talk) 19:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

24.18.140.58
After my gross reversion and my /*Past exhibitions*/ edit during the last hour, we retain two insertions by recurrent visitor 24.18.140.58 (Evidently I missed that hyphen which I expect to get later.)
 * IF VI WAS IX, a soaring guitar sculpture made up of more than 500 musical instruments and 30 computers conceived by UK exhibit designer Neal Potter and developed by sound sculptor Trimpin. (00:07, 23 May 2013)
 * Taking Aim: Unforgettable Rock 'n' Roll Photographs Selected by Graham Nash (February 6, 2009 - May 23, 2010) (16:31, 3 June 2013; in my reformat)

I expect to incorporate some of that user's material on the SF or SFF Hall of Fame.
 * ✅ along with incomplete update for 2013. The original name SFF Hall of Fame has been restored onlineand the announcement of new members is in progress this week. See --P64 (talk) 19:16, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

--P64 (talk) 18:08, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Curator Jacob McMurray
For the record, User:Jacobmcmurray is "senior curator of EMP Museum and a member of the SFFHOF induction committee" per his first edit summary, last Friday. I posted the standard talk page Welcome.

"Cool Job: EMP senior curator Jacob McMurray" (2011-12-06)

--P64 (talk) 20:52, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * User:SuzanneBeal "Suzanne Beal, Copywriter" is another editor this week. Probably she was City Arts critic and arts writer 2008 to 2010. --P64 (talk) 21:01, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Quite right -- I am "that" Suzanne Beal```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by SuzanneBeal (talk • contribs) 22:44, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Science Fiction Hall of Fame
FIRST, three sections need clarification regarding the SFM, SFHOF, and the space SFM exhibits occupied.

Lead section. According to the article SFM closed (to the public?) March 2011; replaced in (at least part of?) its space by Avatar: The Exhibition, June 2011. Is any part of SFM still in place or replaced entirely? (The article calls the Battlestar Galactica exhibit current.)

section Science Fiction Hall of Fame. Is there any SFHOF exhibit open to the public? still installed in part of the SFM space but closed to the public? Certainly if Avatar has physically replaced the entire SFM including Hall of Fame exhibit, and perhaps anyway, the image caption should say "Former Founders Circle ..." or "Founders Circle at the former ...".

section Finances. Did the "blue blob" at the south end simply house first the "Artist's Journer", then the SFM&HOF, now Avatar? Then we should say so. Anyway this section should say something about the SFM failure.

SECOND, what is the status of Science Fiction in the institution? Is there any 2011 change in the name or structure of the institution? Or merely a current decision to exhibit Science Fiction only online, continuing to administer the HOF, etc. (BTW, the article doesn't clearly say that this institution entirely took over the HOF. For example, what does it mean that Robin Wayne Bailey of Kansas City is the HOF chairman continuously since 2002?

THIRD, the disambiguation Science Fiction Hall of Fame needs revision, depending on what happens here. For example, the SFHOF should perhaps again have its own article. --P64 (talk) 15:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Obviously the SFHOF continues online (at EMP). According to that top page,
 * EMP's Science Fiction Hall of Fame Gallery is currently under renovation and will reopen in the summer of 2012.
 * This hints, but no more, that SFHOF retains some of the same physical space. --P64 (talk) 17:35, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * This 2011-04-03 letter by Robin Bailey will be a useful source here (Kansas City Science Fiction & Fantasy Society and the Science Fiction Hall of Fame). --P64 (talk) 20:50, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The Center for the Study of Science Fiction at U of Kansas provides a webpage SFFHOF which includes a link to the former official website of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Hall of Fame (1996 to 2004). Along with a little information, I have inserted a reference to the latter here.
 * (ref name=sfhof-old) "Science Fiction and Fantasy Hall of Fame" (official website to 2004). Retrieved 2012-04-25. ||
 * Either of those two SFFHOF pages may be another useful source here and in some biographies of SFHOF members. It provides a preface, short blurbs for the first 36 members, and identifies them by induction year (so it is a source for part of the table in this article). It does confirm that fantasy authors are excluded since 2004 but it does not classify any member as a fantasy author or otherwise.
 * At the same time, I named (ref name=sfhof-new) the existing ref to the current official website of the Science Fiction HOF (2004/2005 to 2012), with today's date Retrieved 2012-04-25 although I did no more than confirm that the link still works. --P64 (talk) 19:34, 25 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Announcement of 2011 HOF inductees, archived 2011-05-19, incorporates announcement that science fiction galleries will be renovated beginning 2010-12-06 in preparation for Avatar which will open 2011-06-04.
 * Subsequent 2012/2013 announcements show:
 * "Icons of Science of Fiction" opened 2012-06-09
 * "Avatar" closed 2012-09-03 — same date as the earliest snapshot of the revamped website
 * --P64 (talk) 21:36, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Sources for annual inductions
I added references for the annual inductions 2006 to 2012. The last six are official via Internet Archive. The 2006 is from our biography George Lucas, rearranged by me as a single ref. • "George Lucas Inducted into the Science Fiction Hall of Fame". Rick DeMott. Animation World Network News. March 13, 2006. Animation World Network (AWN.org). Retrieved 2011-12-26. • "Science Fiction Hall of Fame". The Cohenside. May 15, 2006. Retrieved 2011-12-26.
 * [ref name=hof2006] —replaced 2013-04-01

Both 2006 items may be from official sources; indeed the latter looks like it may be nearly a copy of the official press release.

Our biographies of the five 2005 inductees do not provide any comparable contemporary sources, and Internet Archive seems to have none prior to 2007.


 * I added official references for the annual inductions 2005 and 2006, the latter a replacement for the one reported just above. -P64

But we have 1996 to 2004 annual classes from the first SFHOF website (ref name=sfhof-old). So we know the 2005 class by elimination.

--P64 (talk) 20:59, 20 March 2013 (UTC)


 * We now have a single official ref for 1996 to 2004, the formerly official webpage at
 * * midamericon.org –1996 to 2004

and official refs annually for 2005 to 2012, all from the Internet Archive, originally from three different original domain names:
 * sfhomeworld.org – 2005/2006
 * empsfm.org – 2007/2010
 * empmuseum.org – 2011/2012
 * The latter domain name is current but the website has been revamped (September 2012). :: --P64 (talk) 20:40, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

2013
User:24.18.140.58 has at least twice deleted prose coverage of the SFFHoF aka SFHoF. --once with remark "no longer at EMP Museum" in the edit summary --never with prose coverage of that point, nor a reference

EMP Museum continues to serve its SFHoF page, which has not changed in months. It continues to say that EMP members make the hall of fame nominations without information about frequency (eg, annual) or 2013 activity in particular.

I have restored the prose coverage twice. --P64 (talk) 19:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Done once again. See
 * The original name Science Fiction and Fantasy Hall of Fame has been restored online.
 * H. R. Giger and Judith Merril have been named and the one-line heading implies that three more 2013 inductees will be named this week (daily thru Friday).
 * [ref name=SFFhof-new] "Science Fiction and Fantasy Hall of Fame". EMP Museum (empmuseum.org). Retrieved 2013-06-18.


 * Some official webpages archived during May (Internet Archive).
 * [ref name=sfhof-new] "Science Fiction Hall of Fame". EMP Museum (empmuseum.org). Archived 2013-05-31.
 * Class of 2012 individuals: Joe Haldeman; James Tiptree, Jr.. Archived 2013-05-10.
 * Parallel eddresses for James Cameron and Virgil Finlay are not in the archive (http://web.archive.org/web/20130412204641/http://empmuseum.org/at-the-museum/museum-features/science-fiction-hall-of-fame/members/james-cameron.aspx http://web.archive.org/web/20130412204641/http://empmuseum.org/at-the-museum/museum-features/science-fiction-hall-of-fame/members/virgil-finlay.aspx). Probably they were never blurbed on the new website. No loss as the Haldeman and Tiptree blurbs are from the 2012 press release verbatim.


 * Blurbs for members other than Giger and Merril are not available in the s-f-a-f-h-o-f folder. (I checked three.)


 * I do not expect to revisit this for a few days, after this week's announcements.
 * --P64 (talk) 19:05, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The 2013 class of five new members has been announced separately, with photos and blurbs on each in the banner atop the revised webpage. The recognition of JRR Tolkien fits resumption of the original "Science Fiction and Fantasy". I revised the article prose as seems appropriate now.
 * Two other sites where comprehensive coverage may be expected are Locus Online and Science Fiction Awards Database (SFADB, sfadb.com). --P64 (talk) 18:19, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Locus Online News merely lists the five and links the official page. --P64 (talk) 17:58, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * SFADB is brought to you since August 2012 by the current parent Locus Science Fiction Foundation and succeeds the Locus Index of SF Awards (once from Locus Publications).
 * sfadb: Science Fiction Hall of Fame now incorporates the class of 2013 (so the honor now shows up on each of those five person pages) but retains the old name SFHOF and a dead link. --P64 (talk) 20:41, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * EMP Museum now shows a newsflash that "welcomes five major players" in June of 2013. It does not say anything about the process or note any change in the name (SFFHOF) or the number of new members (five). --P64 (talk) 16:28, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

http://www.empmuseum.org/at-the-museum/museum-features/science-fiction-and-fantasy-hall-of-fame.aspx

Puffery problems
I just copy-edited the article to deal with WP:PEACOCK and a WP:tone that is not encyclopedic. Examples:
 * leading-edge
 * dedicated to the ideas and risk-taking that fuel contemporary popular culture.
 * toured to major cultural institutions
 * wealth of educational resources
 * houses multiple innovative galleries
 * Award-winning exhibits
 * legendary costumes from screen and stage
 * visitors can explore the tools of rock 'n' roll through myriad instruments and step into the spotlight
 * soaring guitar sculpture
 * Legendary artifacts from literature, video games, and comics; and celebrated costumes from TV and the silver screen
 * Visitors can view iconic artifacts, get into the minds of monster makers past and present, and scream bloody murder.

Here's hoping that future updates keep the WP:Manual of Style in mind. 67.100.127.142 (talk) 22:37, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on EMP Museum. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130513174906/http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/9807/features-downey.php to http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/9807/features-downey.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120120232442/http://www.seattlepi.com/ae/286390_architecture26.html to http://www.seattlepi.com/ae/286390_architecture26.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090907143429/http://www.doubletakeexhibit.org:80/press/index.asp?dt=032106 to http://www.doubletakeexhibit.org/press/index.asp?dt=032106

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Please add location to the article
OTRS received a note from a reader observing that we do not even identify the location of the museum.

Ideally someone could add an infobox such as Infobox museum in addition to mentioning the location in the lead. While the article does have coords, it is traditional to include the geographical location as text and as an infobox entry.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  00:18, 21 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree this is lacking. It's now 1.5 years later and apparently this hasn't been fixed yet. Sad state. Bonomont (talk) 18:54, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Errors
The discussion in the finance section about the former "ride" is incorrect. Having worked there for years, I can attest to the fact that it contained a 3 part film about James Brown's band creating the music for the "ride", a fictional account about two musicians learning about funk music, and then the motion platform ride portion was about a street performance with James Brown's face digitally superimposed on an impersonators dancing body. It also contained scenes from a Parliament concert. The film/platform was supposedly sold to a casino in Vegas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.225.245.229 (talk • contribs) 23:15, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Public reception
People really really hated this thing when it first came into being and it was called horrendously ugly/an eyesore by like... everyone. Surely there must be some external sources talking about all that? 50.34.105.89 (talk) 08:14, 14 August 2020 (UTC)