Talk:Music education

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 September 2021 and 8 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mcguirp, Bhello14. Peer reviewers: HaylAtk23, Ottawa10, BSI26, Pennyseilyon.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:39, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Expert Needed
This article doesn't do justice to the immensity of Music Education, and is in serious need of an expert. Orff and Kodaly aren't even mentioned! And I don't see why the "curricula" of the U.S. and Great Britain should take up 90% of the article. When I find the time (which probably won't be soon), I'll start doing some major contributing. --Crabbyass 03:44, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, starting with cleaning up this popular misconception. The only research on this shows a minor impact that lasts no more than 10 minutes, and is heavily questioned. "There are many additional benefits training young children, as well as older children and teenagers, in music. Brain activity is increased which, in turn, strengthens spatial-temporal reasoning and skills in abstract reasoning (skills used in math and science). The brain learns to organize better and perform several tasks at the same time, by practicing the many facets involved in playing a musical instrument." Ashmedai 21:05, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Importance of Music Education
The important of Music Education is downplayed in the U.S. The school systems are removing the music programs because of budget reasons. It is forgotten that music had a tremendous amount of benefits that will go with students for the rest of their lives. User:Wlhunter 02:19, 11 July 2006


 * Agreed, but it isn't only downplayed in the U.S. - it happens everywhere. Nevertheless, this article is still a joke and needs some serious attention. --Crabbyass 23:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


 * May I ask why you think this article is a joke? User: Wlhunter 01:14, 12 July 2006
 * Ok, so "a joke" was a bit harsh...sorry, I was a bit cranky. Truth be told, it HAS improved greatly these past few weeks.  Only a few months ago, the article consisted of nothing more than a brief outline of the history of music education in the U.S.  Nothing more.  As good as it is getting, I still personally think there's a LOT more information that should be there.  This has been on my "to-do" list for a while, but I've been too busy to tackle it.  Kudos on your and everyone elses contributions.  --Crabbyass 20:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Tobin Method???
In all of my studies (which include a masters degree in music education), I've never heard the "Tobin Method" even mentioned, much less explained. Is this a pedagogy primarily employed by British music educators? Is it in present use? Just curious... OscarTheCat 21:00, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Is Tobin Method really a major method worth citing in an encyclopedia? I suppose it might be worth a single footnote. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.197.109.128 (talk • contribs).


 * The Tobin Method seeks to teach music by integrating notation with colours. It is current, but not at all widely practised in the UK. It is certainly NOT a major method worth citing in this encyclopedia. Captaingrumpy 23:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

More methods
I'm concerned that this article is becoming a menangerie of nonacademic, nonresearched "methods". May I suggest that one criterion for including a method, approach, or learning theory in this article be that the method, approach, or learning theory have a documented, rigorous research base? As far as I know, these would include only: If it necessary to include other methods, they may be listed under "Other methods" with brief descriptors. But the bulk of the "Methods" section should be (IMO) devoted to the four five I mention above. OscarTheCat3 22:45, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Dalcroze eurhythmics
 * Orff Schulwerk
 * Kodaly method
 * Gordon Music Learning Theory
 * Suzuki Method

Other Theories
I kindly disagree. According to this, Galileo's view of the Universe should have been listed under "Other Theories"? and maybe Picasso, Satie and John Cage under "Other Techniques"? GeeZee2 23 October 2006


 * You may disagree (that's what talk pages are for, having a dialogue), but I'm not sure I follow your logic. Please elaborate on your point so I may better understand your position.  OscarTheCat3 21:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think I see where you're coming from, but I find it a bit contradictory. When Galileo et al first proposed their theories, I'm sure if there was such an encylopedia they would have been listed as "Other Theories".  It has only been through rigorous testing, wide-spread adoption and time that they have become part of the standard discipline.  As such, the same criteria proposed by OscarTheCat3 should apply. Galileo's inventions/discvories, Picasso's "Cubism", John Cage's philosophies and Satie's overall weirdness (for the lack of a better term) have all been heavily researched, documented, studied and followed all over the world.  Likewise, so have the five main methodologies mentioned in the article.  Correct me if I'm wrong (I, also, have never heard of the Tobin method), but I don't think the other methodologies can survive the same kind of scrutiny.  While I have no doubt that they are effective approaches, do their lack of a comparable following/research-base warrant a placement in a list of Main methodologies? -Crabbyass 05:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Jazz Ensemble
Hey, everybody. Just an idea for an addition to the little sidebar on the Music Education front page... I think Jazz Ensemble should be added to the list of instructional settings. If I was a teacher, I'd add it myself. Any thoughts? Realdeal 55 01:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

May I get good in music without attending any music school?
I think some people know about music well without going to music school. But some are not. Why? Is it depend on the state or the country that he lives in?

Gordon's Music Learning Theory deserves more prominence
Perhaps I am bias to Gordon's theory of music learing because it was the basis of my undergraduate studies in music education, but I am almost certain that it was the first research-based theory on how children learn music. Correct me if I am wrong. Also, 'method' is not the correct word to describe many of the music education philosophies listed in the 'methods' section. Teaching methods can be derived from Orff's or Kodaly's ideas, but they are not methods themselves.

Unsubstantiated Claims
Many of the claims made in this article's opening paragraphs have either been refuted by research or have not yet been properly verified. As a music educator, I hear many of these arguments used in favor of music education on a regular basis, but many of them do not hold water. It is true that music has been included in the body of educational topics of many societies, but perhaps we need to better examine why this is, and to further validate music on its own merits, rather than as a panacea for education in general. 72.241.135.248 02:44, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

University Opportunities
The paragraph discussing the opportunities to study music education at the university level is quite restricted to overview classes for people outside the field. Music education has become a quite popular opportunity for students to MAJOR in a field that influences others. Music educators are often overlooked, and should get their chance and deserved spotlight for influencing our culture, and everyday lives. Just a thought, but I really felt as if something should be added about the opportunities that are out there to become a music educator, not just the chance to study music for fun or academic credit.

External link suggestion
I would like to suggest an external link that I believe would be of strong relevance to the music education topic and provide visitors with a significant source of additional information on a large variety of music education issues. MusicEdMagicis a professional music educator portal that provides timely and useful articles on issues that currently affect music educators of all disciplines. The site includes a large, highly categorized music education resource directory as well as an interactive music composer timeline and database that teachers can use as a presentation tool in classroom settings. These things are in addition to hundreds of professionally written articles on a variety of topics. The site is published by the current technology editor for the MENC's Teaching Music Magazine and also is a regular contributor to Technology and Learning Magazine. Thank you for your consideration. MaestroC 17:47, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Music Education Magic

Maths, Science and Reasoning via Music and Computers
Obviously early exposure to music is beneficial but there is more to maths (and 'reasoning') beyond that required by 10 year olds. Real exposure to computers (programming, computer science, algorithmics, computer engineering) requires and stimulates more mathematics and reasoning that music, whose direct involvement with mathematics stops at basic arithmetic as far as an instrumentalist is concerned, and not much further for serious theorists. I've deleted the relevant statement, on the grounds that it is in bad English, has only a POV reference, and is narrow to the point of nonsense.

Concerned about O'Connor method
The fact it was created 3 years ago suggests to me it's not a major learning approach like the others of many decades. I suspect it's been added by a booster for O'Connor. Maybe even O'Connor himself? To remove? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.26.154.154 (talk) 18:42, 27 March 2012 (UTC) Update: I've moved the section citing the O'Connor method under 'other notable methods' until someone with more experience can remove it fully. I'm certain it doesn't deserve citation alongside the top four.

Sources for Information on World Music Education
These are the articles that I am looking to research further for my topic, looking into how world music is being used to teach children musical culture.


 * Pascale, L. (2011). Sharing Songs: A Powerful Tool for Teaching Tolerance and Honoring Culture. General Music Today, 25(1), 4-7.


 * Knapp, D. H. (2011). The Inclusive World of Music: Students With Disabilities and Multiculturalism. General Music Today, 25(1), 41-44.


 * Reimer, B. (2012). Another Perspective: Struggling toward Wholeness in Music Education. Music Educators Journal, 99(2), 25-29.

Amyhallstrom (talk) 01:45, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Bartolome, S. J. (2011). Beyond Guided Listening: Exploring World Musics With Classroom Instruments. General Music Today, 24(3), 28-33. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amyhallstrom (talk • contribs) 23:15, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Incubator programs to include
Hello this is Tyler Hopkins from Siena Heights University, I think that the page should include the programs that are helping start music programs in schools like the Vh1 save the music program. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thop161 (talk • contribs) 17:32, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

ONLINE MUSIC EDUCATION
I WANT TO LEARN MUSIC VOCAL AND WANT TO LEARN GUITAR — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.253.20.158 (talk) 17:01, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Music education for special needs pupils
The section on Significance of music education lacks content on music education for special needs individuals in schools or in residential frameworks. For a specific example of relevance, see Williams syndrome. -- Deborahjay (talk) 09:49, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Advocacy: Keep or increase music budgets in US schools
The last few paragaphs of the article read like an editorial. We are making an argument to keep or increase the budget for music education, on the grounds that it will help in a number of related areas like academic achievement, proper behavior, or "success" in life generally.

That is all well and good, but shouldn't we attribute these arguments to their advocates? It's not really Wikipedia's position, is it? --Uncle Ed (talk) 12:45, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Adding content for Significance section
Hi, I have a Wiki assignment for my senior capstone course in COM studies. I would like to add content. I began working on the topic in my Sandbox, and of course, the actual article has changed immensely from when I began. but here is the link to my sandbox. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:HalfwayThrough/Sandbox/Music_Education_Benefits. I will adjust and add. I am new, but my research is solid, so if it is okay with everyone I will make an attempt to add value. Thanks. HalfwayThrough (talk) 16:05, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

The "Think System"
Someone is pulling your leg, here:

"The Think System====

"Meredith Willson's groudbreaking methodology was pioneered by instrumental music educator Prof. Harold Hill (Gary Conservatory '05)."

... is a synopsis of the plot device from the musical "The Music Man". Prof. Harold Hill is the title character, who was a notable con man, and rather unwilling inadvertent instrumental teacher, in the story. Since he admitted he couldn't play the instruments he sold to unsuspecting families, he invented the idea that all students had to do was to "think" what they wanted to play, and it would happen.

Need I say this is not a genuine music education method?


 * I was reading this article today and noticed that. Removed it and then read this comment. It is somewhat concerning that it was not corrected after three years, including six months with a comment on the talk page. --Al Climbs (talk) 07:50, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Wiki Education assignment: SSC199 TY2
— Assignment last updated by Ctysick (talk) 12:37, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Basic definition
"Music education is a field of practice in which educators are trained for careers as elementary or secondary music teachers,  school or music conservatory ensemble directors."

Really? Music education is just the training of teachers? Not the teaching of music itself? What is the latter called then? Furthermore, this sentence seems to contradict much of the rest of the article, which seems to be about the teaching of music itself. I think this sentence at least needs a rewrite. Furthermore, the lead as a whole seems rather long and should probably be trimmed down. — Smjg (talk) 16:16, 8 April 2023 (UTC)